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Why don't refs give 10 counts anymore?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hyper Knuckles
    I probably need to rewatch the fight but if memory serves, Mares had an absent look in his eyes, I don't recall him getting up for a few minutes. No pasa nada.
    after the second knockdown the ref didn't even see Mares eyes because Abners head was facing down. As soon as he tried to get up, the ref jumped on him.


    Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Dagomba View Post
      Oh I get it. What I'm telling you is, if an expert ref like Riess feels like there was no need to count anymore why give him ****? He felt there was no need to count to 10 again.

      He did count to ten and he did evaluate Mares as he stood in front of him. He did that on the first KD, he gave him relatively a really long time to evaluate him and to give the champion time and a second chance. Mares had no answer because he had no legs and was fighting out of sheer instinct, Abner even said he didn't even remember how the KO played out. If Riess felt it was over and he felt there was no need to count to 10. Why would he?
      Ok so let him do it on the second knock down. How many times have we seen a fighter who we thought was done for, come back and win the fight? Many times, give Mares that opportunity to at least get up. If the ref sees he's not right, or can't answer the question, then you stop it.

      It's that simple.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by FerFAL
        Quote:

        Originally Posted by Cuauhtémoc1520

        I was really torn between who to root for in the Mares vs Gonzales fight. I love both of those guys and knew Gonzales was a very dangerous opponent because of his power and experience.

        When Mares was hit with that left hook, and got up, the ref let it go and then he got knocked down again.

        My thing is, why in the *** don't refs give 10 counts anymore? Allow Mares the right to get up if he can. I'm not saying he would have, or he wouldn't have but there was like 8 seconds left in the round and giving him a 10 count would have ended the fight.

        Instead, the ref counts to about 5, stops the fight and then HOLD MARES DOWN from getting up!?!

        What do you have to lose to just count to 10? I don't get it. What if Mares gets up, the round ends and then he has 1 minute to recover in the corner? It could have been a completely different fight.

        Props to Gonzales but I'm tired of these refs just stopping fights. Give the ***in 10 count, if the guy is out cold like Pac or Hatton were, then I understand but Mares was trying to get up.

        Boxing is a dangerous sport and no matter how much balls one fighter may have, tis not his choice to die in the ring even if he's willing to do that. That's why you have ref, doctors and a corner. The ref. is the guy 5 inches away from the boxers face looking into his eyes. The pupils, the movement, if the guy jsut inst there eny more even if his heart makes him get up, that's when the fight gets stop. There's really no point i someone gettting hurt, its a sport at the end of the day. Getting KO is bad enough as it is, there's no point in waiting unitl a guy gets beaten to pulp to stop the fight.
        Sure you may have a wrong decision by a judge every now and then, stopping it too early, but any sane person preffers that, preffers the fight being stopped 10 seconds too early than 10 seconds too late. Ten seconds to later, even 2 seconds to late! may make all the difference in the world. We're talking brain damage, even death.
        Ever seen a boxer with brain damage because referee took a couple seconds longer to stop the fight? not pretty.
        How was the ref able to see Mares eyes if Abner was facing down just attempting to get up?


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        • #34
          Originally posted by Cuauhtémoc1520 View Post
          I was really torn between who to root for in the Mares vs Gonzales fight. I love both of those guys and knew Gonzales was a very dangerous opponent because of his power and experience.

          When Mares was hit with that left hook, and got up, the ref let it go and then he got knocked down again.

          My thing is, why in the *** don't refs give 10 counts anymore? Allow Mares the right to get up if he can. I'm not saying he would have, or he wouldn't have but there was like 8 seconds left in the round and giving him a 10 count would have ended the fight.

          Instead, the ref counts to about 5, stops the fight and then HOLD MARES DOWN from getting up!?!

          What do you have to lose to just count to 10? I don't get it. What if Mares gets up, the round ends and then he has 1 minute to recover in the corner? It could have been a completely different fight.

          Props to Gonzales but I'm tired of these refs just stopping fights. Give the ***in 10 count, if the guy is out cold like Pac or Hatton were, then I understand but Mares was trying to get up.

          refs from the past would have let that go. that said, if you go back far enough, they used to pretty much let a guy fight until he couldn't stand. louis vs schmelling 2, for example. i don't care for that much damage to be dealt out in a sport. i have no issues with the stoppage. mares was very clearly separated from his senses after the first left hook. when he was on the ground from the second knockdown he had a very disturbing, glazed look about him. he wasn't even looking at the ref until the fight was waved off.


          i have very little confidence that he would have beaten the count, but i don't need to see a fighter unable to stand to call the fight off.

          mares will have a much better time of regrouping after a quick, merciful knockout. if that kept up for a few more rounds he might have never fought again.

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          • #35
            I don't care what the ref saw, Mares was badly hurt, his eyes looked terrible. Fully agree with the stoppage.

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            • #36
              to more directly answer your question, i'm sure that refs are taught to be ******* with stoppages during the count these days. it's not a change that each ref has individually made no his own.

              if i had some free time today i'd pull up some examples where fighters from the past were allowed to fight simply because they could stand. it's almost academic that they're on the soles of their feet after 10 seconds. refs today, in my opinion, should be taught to make a thorough evaluation of a fighter's fitness during the count.

              back in the day they were just a clock. get up and you're allowed to fight, if your corner doesn't throw in a towel. today they're making a judgement about a fighter's ability to continue that goes beyond his ability to regain his feet before 10 seconds.



              i thought it was a great stoppage. mares has almost surely peaked, but he'll be in meaningful fights again.
              Last edited by New England; 08-26-2013, 01:25 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Cuauhtémoc1520 View Post
                You guys still don't get it.....LOL

                Whether or not you stop it when he's laying on the canvas or standing in front of you it makes no difference. That's the point.

                Just because he gets up, doesn't mean he will let him fight. Just give him the 10 count and evaluate him as he's standing in front of you.

                I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
                All I can say is that I am with Cuauhtémoc right down the line on this one, and also smh as to why/how the superiority of the logic seems elusive to some (don't mean that to sound arrogant, either). Oh well, that's the reality of forums, and I'm sure others would wonder the same about POV's that I 'fail to grasp'.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by New England View Post
                  to more directly answer your question, i'm sure that refs are taught to be ******* with stoppages during the count these days. it's not a change that each ref has individually made no his own.

                  if i had some free time today i'd pull up some examples where fighters from the past were allowed to fight simply because they could stand. it's almost academic that they're on the soles of their feet after 10 seconds. refs today, in my opinion, are taught to make a thorough evaluation of a fighter's fitness during the count.

                  back in the day they were just a clock. get up and you're allowed to fight, if your corner doesn't throw in a towel. today they're making a judgement about a fighter's ability to continue that goes beyond his ability to regain his feet before 10 seconds.



                  i thought it was a great stoppage. mares has almost surely peaked, but he'll be in meaningful fights again.
                  New England you are a smart guy and it shocks me you of all people still don't get my point.

                  You kind of answered your own point in this response which is even more funny.

                  First off, you cannot compare what happened in the old days to now, that's not a good analogy. You yourself said that today, refs are more prone to stop fights and protect fighters than in older times.

                  I agree 100% but that still has NOTHING to do with my point. Whether or not Mares gets up or not, or can continue or not has noting to do with the point I'm making.

                  I'm just asking for a 10 count when the fighter is conscious and TRYING to get up. He's not hurting or helping Mares anymore or any less by stopping the fight after a 5 count....

                  There's two scenarios that could have happened. Scenario 1 Mares gets up, he is evaluated by the ref by asking him questions and making him walk a straight line. If the ref sees that Mares cannot continue, then the fight is stopped anyway whether Mares is on the canvas or on his feet.

                  Allowing him to his feet is NOT a guarantee of him allowing the fight to continue. So again, the comparison to the old refs is a bad one.

                  In the second scenario he gets up, answers the questions and walks straight and is allowed to continue. The round ends and Mares gets a full 1 minute to recover.

                  Either way, the ref isn't hurting or helping Mares. He's just making the evaluation when Mares is on his feet, rather than forcing him to the ground which he did. He physically put his hands on Mares and pushed him down.

                  Just give the godamn 10 count, that's all I'm saying.

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                  • #39
                    The only difference between Cuauhtémoc's POV and mine is the profanity! LOL And I have to hand it to C for his perseverance (I pretty much threw in the towel a while ago). I think he's giving you all his version of a 10-count (explaining himself 10 times), instead of being pushed back down after only the 3rd time!

                    More power to ya', C.

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                    • #40
                      they bring doctors in quickly to open airways, get the mouthpiece out, adjust the fighter's body, etc. when a guy is out you do not need a count.

                      anybody here ever knocked anybody out, or seen it up close? it's not something i'm proud of, but i've rendered several people unconscious playing sports, and a couple in fights. that snoring sound you hear is from an impeded airway. you probably can't hear it on a boxing broadcast. if the head is in the wrong position the airway can be blocked completely. if a guy's nose is broken he may not be able to breath out of it at all. his mouthpiece is still in. oxygen is vital to the brain at all times, but especially during and directly following head trauma. those are a vital 10 seconds.

                      one of your first actions when approaching an unconscious victim is to get an open airway and make sure he's breathing.

                      when a guy is hurt, but conscious, you use your discretion throughout the count. the ref started to count, saw what he needed to see, and stopped the fight.
                      Last edited by New England; 08-26-2013, 02:06 PM.

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