catchweight king, coming off losses. Great response!!!

[fish262]

Great post OP people need to stop bashing Manny and just respect what he was given to the sport.

[jov6388]

Breadman mailbags are classic reads dude knows what the **** he is talking about!

[ADP02]

.....My main beef with the PAC catch weight(s) is the jumping up and down on weight for the advantage. Against de LA hoya he could fight at 147....but not against cotto. Had to catchweight cotto for only one clear reason.

Now I'm not saying that the catchweight was responsible for Cotto's loss, but am saying that there is only one reason on why he demanded it. Let's also not forget that he was asking 143, and they negotiated up to 145.

Against the bigger legit threats he makes them come down because he can't go up. Against the smaller guys he makes come up because he all of a sudden can't go down. That's my perception of it all.

As far as PAC/de LA hoya, there's a huge difference between struggling to put on a few pounds, and killing yourself in order to drop weight. De LA hoya was a skeleton, needed a freaking Iv for ***s sake. In any case, Oscar agreed to the catchweight.

The thing I don't care about the original post is, it really doesn't address the arguments at all.It starts of with irrelevant bs about who PAC beat to get a title, and when it actually gets to the opponents who PAC asked catch weights for, it just deflects by saying 'well this guy did It once, and that guy did it once'. Etc.

And for the record, I consider Manny making Marquez come up to 147 as a catchweight (even tho its a division). Its one in the same with the principal IMO. The smaller guys he makes come...for the advantage, and the bigger guys he makes come down...for the advantage. That's my perception atleast.

You are a bit inconsistent and that person points it out too.

First you criticize the Oscar fight but then YOU COUNT IT AS LEGIT and consider Cotto the 2nd WW he faced. Which is it? Oscar hardly touched Manny.

Manny was fighting at 130 the year before fighting Cotto. You criticize Manny for bringing Cotto down to 145 while Manny had to go up BUT then you criticize the then WW title holder, Manny, for fighting Marquez at 147??? That is not being consistent! You don't even bring up the fact that Manny, who had the title, came in at 143 NOT 145 like Cotto to fight Marquez. Yet, as you complained about Manny for a similar situation, you criticized Manny not Marquez who had 2 CWs of 144 in a row. How come? Marquez even looked bigger than Manny and KOed him.

Again, that writer (post) mentioned this. Others CW Manny to come down and Manny is criticized and you even criticized the WW champ Manny fighting at 147.

[pbftxrs316]

Great post OP people need to stop bashing Manny and just respect what he was given to the sport.

What about Floyd?

[Sam Donald]

Pacman is a top 10 fighter of all time

Dont give me that barney ross nonsense

[junior gong]

What about Floyd?

What about him? He hasnt given anything to the sport, in fact he has harmed its image greatly with his cherrypicking and rip off ppv fights, not to mention the 3 failed drug tests. Boxing will be so much better when he finally quits for good.

[~AK49~]

You are a bit inconsistent and that person points it out too.

First you criticize the Oscar fight but then YOU COUNT IT AS LEGIT and consider Cotto the 2nd WW he faced. Which is it? Oscar hardly touched Manny.

Manny was fighting at 130 the year before fighting Cotto. You criticize Manny for bringing Cotto down to 145 while Manny had to go up BUT then you criticize the then WW title holder, Manny, for fighting Marquez at 147??? That is not being consistent! You don't even bring up the fact that Manny, who had the title, came in at 143 NOT 145 like Cotto to fight Marquez. Yet, as you complained about Manny for a similar situation, you criticized Manny not Marquez who had 2 CWs of 144 in a row. How come? Marquez even looked bigger than Manny and KOed him.

Again, that writer (post) mentioned this. Others CW Manny to come down and Manny is criticized and you even criticized the WW champ Manny fighting at 147.

Actually I didn't criticize the de LA hoya fight at first, but...cool story.

-Secondly, I've actually remained fairly consistent, keeping my original princical/perception in kind. (Read last paragraph of my first post, the first post you quoted)...

[straightleft]

"You seem to be a big Manny Pacquiao fan and I can’t understand why. I do believe he is a special puncher and his foot speed is incredible, so I get the physical part. But his accomplishments are watered down. Most of his opponents are coming off of losses. Most of his fights are at catchweights. Everything seems to be made to order for him. Explain your infatuation with him?"

"Bread’s Response: You sound so ******. Someone told you or you read somewhere that Pacquiao has fought a bunch of catchweight fights so you repeat it. You also must’ve been told that Pacquiao has fought a bunch of guys coming off of losses. So you repeat that too. Because I don’t repeat a bunch of lies that have been told on this man I’m infatuated with him. You are a complete idiot my friend. Only an idiot would repeat a lie as the truth and try to put someone down with it.

Let me explain something to you. I am a Manny fan. The reason being is because of how hard he had it. The first time I saw Manny fight was over 10 years ago and I saw a supreme talent. In about 2009 I saw all of his accomplishments come into question and I researched a few things. This may surprise you.In my research I found out that Pacquiao is the only 3 division champion in the history of boxing that was the underdog in his first 3 title tries. You may not realize the implications of that statement but let me spell it out for you. In boxing terms that is unheard of. Manny Pacquaio was being FED. Think about this, Adrien Broner just won his 3rd title. He was of similar age to Manny for each of his titles. He was the overwhelming favorite in ALL of his title tries.

Manny fought Chatchai Sasakul who was 33-1 when Manny fought him. Manny was just 19 years old. Sasakul was the deal. So good in fact he gave Yuri Arbachakov his only career loss. Some consider Arbachakov the BEST flyweight of the 90’s. That’s how good he was. The fight between Manny and Sasakul is on youtube. You can see Manny was over his head, he was just a gun and he persevered and scored a dramatic come from behind ko.*In his next title try he fought he fought Lehlo Ledwaba. Dude was a monster and considered to be the best fighter at 122. Manny was like a 6 to 1 underdog. He destroyed him. Manny was just 22 when he did that.

Then in his next title try he fights the 3rd best p4p fighter in the world in Marco Antonio Barerra and he beats him to a pulp. Now Manny is a 3 division champion at 24 years old and he was the underdog in all of his title tries. And he beat the best fighter in the division to win each of those titles.Then Manny takes on Juan Manuel Marquez to unify in his very next fight. The promoters didn’t give him any stay busy show case fights…….. He gets a draw.

Then he engages in his trilogy with Eric Morales. Morales was coming off of a 12 round majority decision loss in the fight of the year to Barrera. Pacquiao haters act like Morales was kod in 1 round and then fought Pacquiao. There was nothing wrong with that fight. Did I add it was at 130, Pacquiao was yet moving up again. Morales has just had big HBO fights with Marcos Maidana and Danny Garcia recently but Pac gets flack for fighting him at 130lbs 8 years ago. Unbelievable.*He settles things with Morales, fights Barrera in a rematch and then goes for his 4th title vs an all time great in Marquez. So in 4 title tries the one time he is the favorite is against the best fighter he has faced. Next he fights David Diaz in his 5th title try a fight in which Pacquiao got criticized. But Diaz was33-1 and he had just beat Morales. It was Pacquiao’s first fight at 135. Next he gets the Oscar call.

I am going to ask you why would Oscar want to make Manny look good. Manny made himself look good by fighting the perfect fight against a man that was 3 divisions bigger and 6 inches taller. He was being fed again, he just didn’t cooperate.Next he goes for his 6th title try against Ricky Hatton. He almost kills Hatton. So let’s keep track in 6 title tries he was the underdog 3x. He also fought the best fighter in the division 5 out of 6 times, the only time he didn’t was against David Diaz. Next he fights Miguel Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs and destroys him. That’s his 7th title and the 6th time he fought the best guy in the division for the title. Remember Floyd was just coming out of retirement at this time.

Despite what people try to say. Oscar, Hatton and Cotto were all coming off of wins not losses. Oscar had just beat Steve Forbes, Hatton had just beat Paulie Malignaggi. In fact he stopped him in 2008 when Adrien Broner couldn’t last month. And Cotto had just beat Michael Jennings and Joshua Clottey. So up until that point only Morales was coming off of a loss and he’s the only fighter to beat Manny in that decade, go figure smart guy.

Next up we have Joshua Clottey who was coming off of a split decision loss. Some people say he beat Cotto but if those same people don’t like Pacman they say Clottey was coming off of a loss. Mike Alvarado will be fighting Ruslan Provodnikov coming off of one of those same losses. There is nothing wrong with that.Then Pac fights Margarito at a ****** catchweight but I don’t believe it benefited him. Margarito was never more than a BIG welter to me, so they let him come in at 150 and he rehydrated up to 165. He took away Pac’s prime in that fight. Then Pac picked on a shot Shane Mosley. I have no problem admitting that.

Next he fights undefeated Tim Bradley sandwiched by two Marquez fights. Now he’s fighting Brandon Rios coming off of a razor close loss in his comeback fight after being violently kod.What favors has this man been done? Seriously. I’m telling you straight up there is no way I would let my fighters fight the kind of killers that Pacquiao has, multiple times, giving up that kind of experience,weight and height. The one guy who gave him trouble, they made him fight 4x…. He was robbed against Bradley….. He gave up so much size to Margarito that he laid in bed for 3 days AFTER the fight.

I can go on and on.*Tell me another modern fighter that has had to go through that. And I only named the BIG fights and title wins. People like to repeat lies and nonsense about this guy. But the truth is he has had it harder than any fighter in recent history. You guys talk about catchweights but not so much anymore. I wonder why. I won’t bring up Floyd because I am actually a big fan of his also. Yes guys, you can be a Pacman and Moneyman fan at the same time. But Floyd hasn’t had it nearly as rough as PAcquiao, especially coming up.

But let’s get back to catchweights. Pacquiao asked for 2 catchweights, Cotto and Margarito. Marquez asked for two also. Both times 144 against Pacquiao and Mayweather and no one speaks a word about it. Cotto who was supposedly opposed to catchweights, asked for one against Margarito. Somebody hit up Margarito’s trainer on twitter and he will tell you the deal. They settled at an asinine 153 but because Margarito was a cheater nobody cared.Paul Williams fought Sergio Martinez at 157 and no one spoke a word about it. The great Bernard Hopkins fought Kelly Pavlik and Winky Wright at 170lbs and we don’t talk about it. Now the best fighter in the world is fighting Saul Alvarez at 152lbs but yet Manny PAcquiao is the Catchweight King. I only named recent big fights. Go figure again…. #TRUTH

I am a fan of Manny’s but I am more of a TRUTH ADVOCATE. The guy gets a bad rap but no one can give me a valid reason why. What special tailor made fighters that Manny has benefited from? He has fought the for the most part the best available guys, of all colors, styles, height and weights. I’m curious to know about this special matchmaking. Before Manny and Floyd had their public feud nobody talked bad about him. All I’m saying is have your own mind. Manny Pacquiao is the most accomplished fighter of this generation and out of all of the elite fighters of the past 15 years he has had by far the roughest road up"

That was a long display. I will ask these Pac haters with just one question to show your floydiot side. A former 106 pro fighter fought a catchweight fights at welterweight and light middleweight. A coward move right?

Anyway your brave hero was a 2 times champ at light middleweight and got those belts without catchweight but now he asked for a catchweight fight against another light middleweight champ but it was ok for you. LMAO!

[Slip Stream]

People fail to see this. After Pac fought Oscar at 147 it was a one time deal, he went down in weight to 140 for a Hatton fight, the majority of analyst even said that Hatton would knock out Pacman, I think Timothy Bradley was the only guy who said Pac would KO Hatton lol.

Than when Pac went up to 147 against a legit welterweight in Cotto, they offered the catchweight to even the fight, I never had a problem with catchweights, nobody did, until the people who didn't want Pacman to become great used it to hate on him, thats the only time ever that people had a problem with catchwegihts is when Pacman used them. They hate him so hard and many didn't want to see an Asian guy on top or a guy who wasn't their fighter to get praised.

Nobody said **** when Floyd fought JMM and failed to make weight, maybe a few people on a message board, only when Pacman fights at CW its a problem.

It shows they just hate this guy.

You must understand that Mayweather is hated by more people than Manny is loved by. And yes a lot of folks did speak out about the fact that Floyd didn't make weight. See, you gotta separate the folks that defend Floyd on this site and the rest of the world. And again I must stress this, Floyd is defended by a minority that appreciate his skill as a boxer and can separate that from the degenerate human he is, but his past behaviors make him especially inaccessible to a lot of people. So I think you're wrong, Manny is a very beloved figure and he always will be despite a few critiques from Mayweather groupies (me included.)

I can agree with you somewhat on the "catch-weight" issue however, because it seemed like a legitimate way to hate on another person/fighter without being patently obvious about one's bias. Having defended Mayweather a lot on this site over the years I know how profound hate can be but what's productive is to know and understand this.

Emotions aside, Manny's had a pretty amazing career and he's brought many new fans to the sport we all love so much. I see so many arguments constantly re-litigated here, it gets kinda nauseating. If Manny had no one around him that cared for his health his career would have ended a long time ago.

[tangalog2200]

"You seem to be a big Manny Pacquiao fan and I can’t understand why. I do believe he is a special puncher and his foot speed is incredible, so I get the physical part. But his accomplishments are watered down. Most of his opponents are coming off of losses. Most of his fights are at catchweights. Everything seems to be made to order for him. Explain your infatuation with him?"

"Bread’s Response: You sound so ******. Someone told you or you read somewhere that Pacquiao has fought a bunch of catchweight fights so you repeat it. You also must’ve been told that Pacquiao has fought a bunch of guys coming off of losses. So you repeat that too. Because I don’t repeat a bunch of lies that have been told on this man I’m infatuated with him. You are a complete idiot my friend. Only an idiot would repeat a lie as the truth and try to put someone down with it.

Let me explain something to you. I am a Manny fan. The reason being is because of how hard he had it. The first time I saw Manny fight was over 10 years ago and I saw a supreme talent. In about 2009 I saw all of his accomplishments come into question and I researched a few things. This may surprise you.In my research I found out that Pacquiao is the only 3 division champion in the history of boxing that was the underdog in his first 3 title tries. You may not realize the implications of that statement but let me spell it out for you. In boxing terms that is unheard of. Manny Pacquaio was being FED. Think about this, Adrien Broner just won his 3rd title. He was of similar age to Manny for each of his titles. He was the overwhelming favorite in ALL of his title tries.

Manny fought Chatchai Sasakul who was 33-1 when Manny fought him. Manny was just 19 years old. Sasakul was the deal. So good in fact he gave Yuri Arbachakov his only career loss. Some consider Arbachakov the BEST flyweight of the 90’s. That’s how good he was. The fight between Manny and Sasakul is on youtube. You can see Manny was over his head, he was just a gun and he persevered and scored a dramatic come from behind ko.*In his next title try he fought he fought Lehlo Ledwaba. Dude was a monster and considered to be the best fighter at 122. Manny was like a 6 to 1 underdog. He destroyed him. Manny was just 22 when he did that.

Then in his next title try he fights the 3rd best p4p fighter in the world in Marco Antonio Barerra and he beats him to a pulp. Now Manny is a 3 division champion at 24 years old and he was the underdog in all of his title tries. And he beat the best fighter in the division to win each of those titles.Then Manny takes on Juan Manuel Marquez to unify in his very next fight. The promoters didn’t give him any stay busy show case fights…….. He gets a draw.

Then he engages in his trilogy with Eric Morales. Morales was coming off of a 12 round majority decision loss in the fight of the year to Barrera. Pacquiao haters act like Morales was kod in 1 round and then fought Pacquiao. There was nothing wrong with that fight. Did I add it was at 130, Pacquiao was yet moving up again. Morales has just had big HBO fights with Marcos Maidana and Danny Garcia recently but Pac gets flack for fighting him at 130lbs 8 years ago. Unbelievable.*He settles things with Morales, fights Barrera in a rematch and then goes for his 4th title vs an all time great in Marquez. So in 4 title tries the one time he is the favorite is against the best fighter he has faced. Next he fights David Diaz in his 5th title try a fight in which Pacquiao got criticized. But Diaz was33-1 and he had just beat Morales. It was Pacquiao’s first fight at 135. Next he gets the Oscar call.

I am going to ask you why would Oscar want to make Manny look good. Manny made himself look good by fighting the perfect fight against a man that was 3 divisions bigger and 6 inches taller. He was being fed again, he just didn’t cooperate.Next he goes for his 6th title try against Ricky Hatton. He almost kills Hatton. So let’s keep track in 6 title tries he was the underdog 3x. He also fought the best fighter in the division 5 out of 6 times, the only time he didn’t was against David Diaz. Next he fights Miguel Cotto at a catchweight of 145lbs and destroys him. That’s his 7th title and the 6th time he fought the best guy in the division for the title. Remember Floyd was just coming out of retirement at this time.

Despite what people try to say. Oscar, Hatton and Cotto were all coming off of wins not losses. Oscar had just beat Steve Forbes, Hatton had just beat Paulie Malignaggi. In fact he stopped him in 2008 when Adrien Broner couldn’t last month. And Cotto had just beat Michael Jennings and Joshua Clottey. So up until that point only Morales was coming off of a loss and he’s the only fighter to beat Manny in that decade, go figure smart guy.

Next up we have Joshua Clottey who was coming off of a split decision loss. Some people say he beat Cotto but if those same people don’t like Pacman they say Clottey was coming off of a loss. Mike Alvarado will be fighting Ruslan Provodnikov coming off of one of those same losses. There is nothing wrong with that.Then Pac fights Margarito at a ****** catchweight but I don’t believe it benefited him. Margarito was never more than a BIG welter to me, so they let him come in at 150 and he rehydrated up to 165. He took away Pac’s prime in that fight. Then Pac picked on a shot Shane Mosley. I have no problem admitting that.

Next he fights undefeated Tim Bradley sandwiched by two Marquez fights. Now he’s fighting Brandon Rios coming off of a razor close loss in his comeback fight after being violently kod.What favors has this man been done? Seriously. I’m telling you straight up there is no way I would let my fighters fight the kind of killers that Pacquiao has, multiple times, giving up that kind of experience,weight and height. The one guy who gave him trouble, they made him fight 4x…. He was robbed against Bradley….. He gave up so much size to Margarito that he laid in bed for 3 days AFTER the fight.

I can go on and on.*Tell me another modern fighter that has had to go through that. And I only named the BIG fights and title wins. People like to repeat lies and nonsense about this guy. But the truth is he has had it harder than any fighter in recent history. You guys talk about catchweights but not so much anymore. I wonder why. I won’t bring up Floyd because I am actually a big fan of his also. Yes guys, you can be a Pacman and Moneyman fan at the same time. But Floyd hasn’t had it nearly as rough as PAcquiao, especially coming up.

But let’s get back to catchweights. Pacquiao asked for 2 catchweights, Cotto and Margarito. Marquez asked for two also. Both times 144 against Pacquiao and Mayweather and no one speaks a word about it. Cotto who was supposedly opposed to catchweights, asked for one against Margarito. Somebody hit up Margarito’s trainer on twitter and he will tell you the deal. They settled at an asinine 153 but because Margarito was a cheater nobody cared.Paul Williams fought Sergio Martinez at 157 and no one spoke a word about it. The great Bernard Hopkins fought Kelly Pavlik and Winky Wright at 170lbs and we don’t talk about it. Now the best fighter in the world is fighting Saul Alvarez at 152lbs but yet Manny PAcquiao is the Catchweight King. I only named recent big fights. Go figure again…. #TRUTH

I am a fan of Manny’s but I am more of a TRUTH ADVOCATE. The guy gets a bad rap but no one can give me a valid reason why. What special tailor made fighters that Manny has benefited from? He has fought the for the most part the best available guys, of all colors, styles, height and weights. I’m curious to know about this special matchmaking. Before Manny and Floyd had their public feud nobody talked bad about him. All I’m saying is have your own mind. Manny Pacquiao is the most accomplished fighter of this generation and out of all of the elite fighters of the past 15 years he has had by far the roughest road up"

very well researched and written...

this should put a cork stopper to this issue regarding cw fights....

can't understand people who cry to high heavens on pac's cw fights or for any other fighter's cw fights....

cw is resorted to make fights we do not normally expect to see...for so many reasons, the green bucks being at the forefront.....