Can you be considered an ATG when these are your 10 best wins?

[Suckmedry]

No ones saying wlad and Vitali wouldn't hang in any era. Of course They would be top contenders, and possibly champions depending on the era.

But to say they storm right through the top class of heavies in history like Liston, Holmes, Frazier, Tyson and Ali is utter nonsense. Dempsey and Marciano are a bit too small but they would both have punchers chances. Again I refer to my point of a 180+ man being able to hurt anyone, and the Dempsey v Willard fight. Willard while not on the technical level of wlad and Vitali, was a big strong man akin to them, and Dempsey literally mauled him. Dempsey has a very live punchers chance vs wlad. I'd still pick wlad to shut him down and stop him, but Dempsey would launch at him with power punches In a way no one has done before....wlad could get a surprise early.

[Weltschmerz]

No ones saying wlad and Vitali wouldn't hang in any era. Of course They would be top contenders, and possibly champions depending on the era.

But to say they storm right through the top class of heavies in history like Liston, Holmes, Frazier, Tyson and Ali is utter nonsense. Dempsey and Marciano are a bit too small but they would both have punchers chances. Again I refer to my point of a 180+ man being able to hurt anyone, and the Dempsey v Willard fight. Willard while not on the technical level of wlad and Vitali, was a big strong man akin to them, and Dempsey literally mauled him. Dempsey has a very live punchers chance vs wlad. I'd still pick wlad to shut him down and stop him, but Dempsey would launch at him with power punches In a way no one has done before....wlad could get a surprise early.

So you agree that Vitali could be a champion in any era? You learned something!

[Elroy1]

No ones saying wlad and Vitali wouldn't hang in any era. Of course They would be top contenders, and possibly champions depending on the era.

But to say they storm right through the top class of heavies in history like Liston, Holmes, Frazier, Tyson and Ali is utter nonsense. Dempsey and Marciano are a bit too small but they would both have punchers chances. Again I refer to my point of a 180+ man being able to hurt anyone, and the Dempsey v Willard fight. Willard while not on the technical level of wlad and Vitali, was a big strong man akin to them, and Dempsey literally mauled him. Dempsey has a very live punchers chance vs wlad. I'd still pick wlad to shut him down and stop him, but Dempsey would launch at him with power punches In a way no one has done before....wlad could get a surprise early.

I never said K2 could rip through Tyson, Tyson is several skill and several punch classes beyond any Ali and pre-Ali fighter, certainly top contender and it's unclear who would win.

The others are different, there is nothing short of cardiac arrest that could allow them to win.

As for 180lbers being able to level a 230lb man. I think the punch threat would be so miniscule for any top 50 HW today that it isn't worth considering.

Who the **** could Dempsey knock out today? Name someone so I could laugh?

Arreola or Stiverne would mistake him for a sandwich!

[Suckmedry]

So you agree that Vitali could be a champion in any era? You learned something!

Of course he could. And that's not an opinion I just came too. See unlike you with your pathological defaming of Ali, Frazier, I respect the klitschkos as quality fighters, because I actually know a bit about boxing, and from my own experience in it I learned to respect EVERY fighter. From the guy with a losing record fighting for $400, to the world champ making millions. Vitalis solid chin means he's going to pose a tough fight for anyone. His lack of speed could find him in a surprising amount of trouble against guys that can close distance quickly though.

[Weltschmerz]

Of course he could. And that's not an opinion I just came too. See unlike you with your pathological defaming of Ali, Frazier, I respect the klitschkos as quality fighters, because I actually know a bit about boxing, and from my own experience in it I learned to respect EVERY fighter. From the guy with a losing record fighting for $400, to the world champ making millions. Vitalis solid chin means he's going to pose a tough fight for anyone. His lack of speed could find him in a surprising amount of trouble against guys that can close distance quickly though.

Vitali has ring generalship you obviously know nothing about and did not study. The only guy who could beat him in the history of the sport is Lennox, and Lennox got lucky too and retired with his tail between his legs. If you think guys like Frazier and Louis would beat Vitali, you are delusional.

[Suckmedry]

Vitali has ring generalship you obviously know nothing about and did not study. The only guy who could beat him in the history of the sport is Lennox, and Lennox got lucky too and retired with his tail between his legs. If you think guys like Frazier and Louis would beat Vitali, you are delusional.

Show me where I said he had no ring generalship Vitali does many things, particularly with feet, to adjust distance and maintain his optimum fighting range.

Stop rehashing that ridiculous fcking debate. Lewis beat Vitali, not the most definitive of victories but it was fair and square, Vitalis face was in no shape to continue and we would all thank you to not bring up that debate because frankly no one cares one iota as much as you do.

Frazier and Louis have live chances to beat Vitali, I absolutely think that. I can see scenarios where both sides beat each other. Interesting fights no doubt.

Vitali has never seen guys who could close distance and deliver power punches like those two. Never ever. Reach and height are good advantages, but you don't understand just how awkward it can be when you are the longer guy confronted at a mid or close range. Your advantages go out the window. There's no guys today at hw that know how to shorten that distance effectively and make the taller guy pay inside. Its a way of fighting that has largely died out.

[LacedUp]

I'm not sure if I've ever made a thread or posted the Klits could hand in the golden age of HW boxing, imo that was 1960-1978/9.

But now that you bring it up, VItali most of all has a great chance of hanging with those guys. Can he beat them or most of them? Well imo he doesn't get past Ali, Foreman, Frazier, possibly Norton. BUt he has a great chance in beating Patterson and I have no doubt in my mind he'd beat Terrell, Williams, Jones, Chuvalo and a whole host of other challengers. Vitali is immense, has great power and a great chin, his resume is mediocre at best but how you could NOT see him hanging with other top level heavies is pure hatred.

Wlad is a different story, more skilled but less punch resistance. Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle all stop him, Liston too possibly if he could get close enough, maybe even Marciano. But Wlad's size, technical skills and power again translates into victories over the "lesser" guys of the division. I can't imagine Terrell, Chuvalo or Patterson denting Wlad or even getting close to him. If you can't see that then again, it's hate blinding you.

Vitali would flatten Patterson with ease.

It's a resume that is topped only by 2 others..

Wladimir Klitschko
Lennox Lewis..

Evander Holyfield also might have fought arguably better opposition too but he lost to a lot of them and much of his record was CW.

Clearly this is not true at all, and just fanboy logic.

Tyson and Holmes fought alright opponents but not at the same level.

Ali has a somewhat ok record.

All of the others had records riddled with bums and undersized opponents. Some of them it wasn't their fault (Marciano) and some of them it was (Dempsey).

All of VK's opponents were either champions, virtually unbeaten contenders. All of them had great records and an average weight of nearly 240lbs!

You can only rate ancient resumes against modern ones relatively on the basis of how they were ranked at title fight time. But obviously that is a sign of a weak era, that bums and cruisers were able to become top contenders!

trollolol

[LacedUp]

Vitali has ring generalship you obviously know nothing about and did not study. The only guy who could beat him in the history of the sport is Lennox, and Lennox got lucky too and retired with his tail between his legs. If you think guys like Frazier and Louis would beat Vitali, you are delusional.

Chris Byrd beat him too.

[W1LL]

Vitali's biggest achievement is still getting his face mushed by a fat, old Lennox.

[Weltschmerz]

Chris Byrd beat him too.

He surely did not.