Can you be considered an ATG when these are your 10 best wins?

[JAB5239]

I'm not obsessed with your life, fat bald and old as you are. I am actually, in fact, convinced that my life is more beautiful than yours. I don't wish anything bad for you though. You should just stop hating on Vitali, a man who is amazing and has accomplished so much more than you in life.

No, you're totally obsessed or you wouldn't be wondering how successful I am, if I have children or what I've accomplished. Stick to boxing and just explain how Vits can be an ATG with his resume. So far in this thread (or any other for that matter) no one has been able to do that.

[JAB5239]

now 78% more and more people are becoming well informed and actually looking at his resume. cong**** to the people!

Now more than 80% believe Vits to not be an ATG. Im glad people are finally looking at the whole picture instead of just following preconceived notions.

[LacedUp]

pianetta's road to a title shot lol! fighting nothing but bums until wlad cherry picks you for an easy knockout in front of thousands of polite clapping germans.

That was my whole point..

Just so you know.

[JAB5239]

we can do the same with every so called ATG...

Here's a pretty embarrassing one.... ATG HW muhammad ali , almost koed by 188 lbs, Henry Cooper !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX8fq1TcmKM

Henry cooper...a guy who wouldn't even be considered a "bum" by today's standard...let a lone, a "heavyweight"


it's a good thing that all eastern euros were banned from participating in pro boxing... No wonder americans had the monopoly of the sport back then.

Terrible logic. Ali won that fight and went on to beat 3 consensus top 10 ATG's (using the IBRO as a reference) as well as fighting a fourth. This isn't even taking into account he beat more number one contenders in a time when boxing wasn't watered down with 4 and 5 different title. And if the eastern Europeans were great (they were very good), they would have beaten the Fraziers, Ali's, Foremans and even Pete Radamacher's.

[JAB5239]

Wlad isn't an atg either.

I disagree. Unless he suddenly loses he is on track to crack the top 10.

[JAB5239]

if marciano's an all time great.... then so is vitali.....

if joe louis is an all time great so is vitali....



go look at their records.

I have...many times. Why don't you explain your reasoning and we'll take it from there?

[Frank Ducketts]

I disagree. Unless he suddenly loses he is on track to crack the top 10.

Neither brother is an atg. I have Vitali ranked higher than Wlad in my book. Both are very good fighters, but Vitali was always better to me.

[Weebler I]

The point I was trying to make is that if you can get a shot at the most prestigious prize in all of sports by beating Botha and Mccall, then something is seriously wrong.

Yeah, Wlad's choice of opponent on that occasion and the German public for paying to watch it.

[JAB5239]

Albeit, a Great Middleweight whose style is conducive to moving up and fighting bigger guys.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact he was a crude brawler who was lucky to grab a paper title in a weak division.

The Heavyweight division must be the only place where having had Championship success at a lower weight gets looked down upon.

Of course it is when you consider the vast differences in size.

But I'm sure if he had beaten a top 10 heavyweight or two, you would've been the first to point it out (minus the negative connotations and all) and give him high praise for it.

Considering he didn't that's irrelevant, don't you think?

Funny, I didn't know one had to do anything more than be one of the few people to beat Wlad for the WBO Title and position yourself into a fight against the other Bro, who was the REAL and better Champion of the two, at that time. You know the whole 'what have you done for me lately' thing and all.

I'm not saying he was a bad fighter just like I'm not saying Vits is a bad fighter. But lets face it, he caught lightning in a bottle one time. Other than that it's exactly as I said. I think his own resume bears that out.

Fair point I suppose, except I added a few more details that were left out

And I suppose that is also fair. But he didn't enjoy that same kind of success or near dominance at heavyweight.

I know. If he at least had the level of career accomplishments as his fellow countryman Gomez. Or at very least had knocked out Wlad prior to facing Vitali, like Sanders. Or at best had won a WBC strap like Peter did - I'm sure he would've fared better and avoided this Doomsday list.

I actually enjoy his skills. But until he actually does something he can't be regarded very highly as a win for Vits. Lets say he goes on to dominate the division after the klits are gone...that would be a plus for Vitaly.

Problem is even if these guys could never beat Vits they still never established dominance over the other contenders for any decent period of time. This certainly isn't Vitaly's fault, but he doesn't deserve any bonus points for beating them because of that.

[cupocity303]

Jabs,

what do you value more, beating someone into retirement/ them never being the same fighter again OR beating a fighter and them going on to achieve more great things like nothing ever happened?