If the Klitschkos were two brothers from Detroit or Philadelphia...

[The Big Dunn]

Vitali retired because of injuries, not to avoid prime opponents.

When he returned, he fought prime, undefeated opponents: Arreola, Solis, etc.

You have no idea why either truly retired-you only give the benefit of the doubt to Viatli and adopt the most extreme negative position when its floyd.

floyd returned to fight the 2nd best p4p fighter in the world.

The sad thing is Broner and Maywather are not who you are really mad at. Your mad at white american fans that don't embrace the Klit brothers. You can't understand why they don't love the klits because they are northern european and, in your warped mind, therefore culturally connected the same way you see other racial/ethnic groups support "their" fighters.

The things you highlight about them-education, languages spoken, politics etc etc are not things that historically move white american sports fans. The 3 biggest athletes in US history are Ali, Jordan and Babe Ruth. No college degrees, dont speak multiple languages (that I know of), aren't chior boys, etc. They gamble, cuss, drink beer, cheat on their wives, but are the best ever at what they do. Their greatness doesn't have to be explained or quantified like you have to do with the klits.

My guess, and I could be wrong, you love the klits because you see them as an example of northern european superiority. WHy would you expect mainstream white US fans to express the same sentiment?

[The Hammer]

My guess, you love the klits because you see them as an example of northern european superiority. WHy would you expect mainstream white US fans to express the same sentiment?

I DON'T expect Americans to love the Klitschkos. I've never said that I do.

I do think they should have a bit of RESPECT for the Klitschkos and shouldn't obsessively hate and continually bash and discredit them.

In polls, you indicated you don't consider either Klitschko to be a top 200 ATG heavyweight. Obviously, it they were two brothers from Philadelphia or Detroit, you'd have both in your top 25.

Why not admit it, Big Dunn?

[shade darkar]

I DON'T expect Americans to love the Klitschkos. I've never said that I do.

I do think they should have a bit of RESPECT for the Klitschkos and shouldn't obsessively hate and continually bash and discredit them.

In polls, you indicated you don't consider either Klitschko to be a top 200 ATG heavyweight. Obviously, it they were two brothers from Philadelphia or Detroit, you'd have both in your top 25.

Why not admit it, Big Dunn?

why do you even care what other people think? if you want to be a fan of the klitschkos, then thats fine. but dont moan and complain when other fans dont.

[The Big Dunn]

I DON'T expect Americans to love the Klitschkos. I've never said that I do.

I do think they should have a bit of RESPECT for the Klitschkos and shouldn't obsessively hate and continually bash and discredit them.

In polls, you indicated you don't consider either Klitschko to be a top 200 ATG heavyweight. Obviously, it they were two brothers from Philadelphia or Detroit, you'd have both in your top 25.

Why not admit it, Big Dunn?

Bull****. respect is earned. wlad gets respect for his winning streak and vitali his KO's. what the dont get is respect as the greatest ever-because they are not. When I or other posters say wlad is 1st ballot hof'er but not the goat you get mad. So its clearly not respect you want from american fans its adulation.

Not in polls-in one poll where you assked where were the Klits. In the individual polls where did I rate wlad? As for the reasons I dont rate them as high as you its their competition. But you never want to discuss that-you want to discuss racial/demographic/cultural factors because thats easier for you.

Tunney/freedom you are going to believe that no matter what. Your anger is misplaced. Sadly, you're like the working guy who has been conditioned to believe his job is being taken by a woman or a person of color when in fact management has decided to outsource your job overseas to someone who will work for 1/100th of your salary and no benefits.

Your real anger should be directed at some of your friends on st--rmfr---t that don't like the klits. They surely aren't fans of floyd and broner and wouldn't have the klits in the top 25 if they wer brothers from philly or detroit.

[Humean]

But you never want to discuss that-you want to discuss racial/demographic/cultural factors because thats easier for you.

You seem to have engaged in the same practices in this very thread.

[The Big Dunn]

You seem to have engaged in the same practices in this very thread.

I'll gladly discuss the klits competition level with you.

If you know the TS then you'd know why I answered the question from the angles I did and why I pointed this out.

[Humean]

I'll gladly discuss the klits competition level with you.

If you know the TS then you'd know why I answered the question from the angles I did and why I pointed this out.

You might be right about Freedom2013's motivations but it is not clear from what you have written in this thread that you are devoid of similar motivations in regards to your arguments. What is clear to me though is that you are content to offer racial/cultural explanations for Freedom2013's liking for the Klitschko's but reject the same reasons for why people either dislike the Klitschko's, or show them a lack of respect. You could of course be correct with that but it is not clear from what you have said, or for other reasons, that this is so.

I don't want to discuss the Klitschko's competition level because I largely agree with you that it has not been especially high. That of course doesn't mean they can't be rated as all-time greats and fairly high on someone's all-times heavyweight list.

Also if you referred to them as the Klitschko's rather than the Klits you wouldn't sound so partisan in the opposite direction.

[The Big Dunn]

You might be right about Freedom2013's motivations but it is not clear from what you have written in this thread that you are devoid of similar motivations in regards to your arguments. What is clear to me though is that you are content to offer racial/cultural explanations for Freedom2013's liking for the Klitschko's but reject the same reasons for why people either dislike the Klitschko's, or show them a lack of respect. You could of course be correct with that but it is not clear from what you have said, or for other reasons, that this is so.

I don't want to discuss the Klitschko's competition level because I largely agree with you that it has not been especially high. That of course doesn't mean they can't be rated as all-time greats and fairly high on someone's all-times heavyweight list.

Also if you referred to them as the Klitschko's rather than the Klits you wouldn't sound so partisan in the opposite direction.

its impossible on an internet forum to assess those as reasons for liking/not liking the klits because we don't know the race/culture of posters.

Freedom assumes that foyd and broner fans are primarily young and black and that because they are they hate the klits. ON an online forum, without seeing faces or the poster telling you something (they could be lying) about their race/culture how can you know what they are? he connects the two based solely on the fighter being discussed.

surely that isn't the type of opinion you would call valid?

if a poster states the reason for not liking the klits all freedom does is say no its because of_________. SO i discount because In these instances.

[cklmaced]

The Kilts more so Wlad take way longer than necessary to KO opponents. If they let their hands go and use their power to not let bums hang around for round after round than maybe they would be liked more. If they were taking out most fighters who faced them within 6 rounds. The press would be like who could stop these beasts but instead they are too cautious and bore people with their style.

There is no problem having a defensive style when necessary you compare Wlad and Floyd as similar. But Floyd needs that style to win because he is taking on for the most part world class opposition. Wlad doesn't need to fight defensive because he has the power just to take out nearly everybody he faces. Americans like fighters who are willing to take risks in the ring its not like B-Hop was getting any love when he ruled the MW division for so long so your argument about being from Philly is ******.

P.S If they were from Detroit they would probably be bankrupt lol

[The Hammer]

Neither Klitschko has ever avoided prime boxers in their weight division, like Floyd Mayweather avoided prime Miguel Cotto, Manny Pacquiao, Tony Margarito, Paul Williams, Shane Mosley when he was still good in 2007-09, etc.