Al Bernstein: "Lennox Lewis Is The Greatest Heavyweight Of All Time"

[ßringer]

This thread offers far more excitement than Lennox's entire career.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Did you watch it live? Not saying it In a condescending way, just curious.

The feeling after the fight was Lewis won a close fight, a large portion of scores were 115-113.

People were expecting a one sided fight like the first one and were shocked at the competitiveness of the second one.

I don't have a card, sorry. It's hard to watch the fight in all honesty, very dull.

I doubt I've even scored it again since the time I watched it live all those years ago. That said, I didn't need to watch it again to know it was a close fight. Like I said I did edge the fight for Holyfield when watching live.

Yeah I saw it live on Sky and have watched it at least one other time over the years when I was re-watching Lewis' career. Maybe 3 times cos Ive seen the HBO version. Haven't seen it in a few years though I'd say. I never was aware of any controversy until this thread. Like I said, I personally would classify it as "close but clear". Holyfield was in the fight but I have never seen a case for him actually winning it. That's a big stretch IMO.

[SN!PER]

Prime Ali and Foreman would've ****ed Lennox up. Ali by UD, Foreman by KO.

Prime Larry Holmes and Ike Ibeabuchi would give him serious problems, could go either way.

[soul_survivor]

This thread offers far more excitement than Lennox's entire career.

I know right! Lennox was a black Wlad/Vitali. Yet those two get criticised non-stop for their style. Lennox is a great but not top 1...or 3...or 5. If anyone's argument on Lennox being the greatest hinges on two fights with an old Evander then they really have to rethink their position.

[Simurgh]

I rank both Lennox and Wlad in higher top 10 ATG HW. Possibly both in top5.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I know right! Lennox was a black Wlad/Vitali. Yet those two get criticised non-stop for their style. Lennox is a great but not top 1...or 3...or 5. If anyone's argument on Lennox being the greatest hinges on two fights with an old Evander then they really have to rethink their position.

****** comparison. Lewis was far more exciting and dynamic than the Klitschkos - especially Wlad.

[Simurgh]

****** comparison. Lewis was far more exciting and dynamic than the Klitschkos - especially Wlad.

I don't really agree on that. Vitali is a pretty exciting fighter. Especially before he retired. Much more aggressive, keeping his hands down all the time, amazing output for such a big fella.

But excitement is a subjective thing. I found Wlad exciting as well as I like how he reads and destroys the opposition - basically outsmarts them every time.

[soul_survivor]

****** comparison. Lewis was far more exciting and dynamic than the Klitschkos - especially Wlad.

How? They both literally have the same defence, the hug and clinch when things get difficult, they don't like brawls, they both have to protect suspect chins so fight behind stiff, well educated jabs. They bot have terrific power when they bother to use it. What are the differences? Maybe Lennox was slightly more aggressive, thats about it.

[marvelousmatt]

Even you could do it. Historians have a habit of saying nice things about people, and I'd pay more attention to those who were around when Marciano was, rather than latecomers who are only reading what other latecomers have written.

Let me challenge you. Look up Marciano's opponents. Note their weights, ages, experience, Physical builds, (on one case, Carmine Vingo, supposed to be one of Marciano's best wins, the kid was 19-20, about 6'4" physically immature, Marciano a solid 27 adult, and a few fights against real set-ups) numbers of fights and how frequently.... Then....Look at the records of Marciano's opponents and note the same things about them. Look at the records of the old, worn out fighters who were almost, if not completely washed up, like Lee Savold, with nearly 150 fights and dragged out of retirement for this last one.....

Don't forget to take into consideration that Marciano's manager, trainer, promoter etc were all "connected" with the Mob, and Marciano himself was a "favourite son"....

Just as a side note, the plane in which Marciano crashed to his death was owned by the Mob Boss of the Des Moines Louis Fratto, and either the pilot or the other passenger was Fratto's son, a long-time close friend of Marciano. In other words, although supposedly "squeaky-clean" he was up to his eyeballs in mafiosos all his life)

What you'll find is that it was a clear a case of thimble-rigging as you could find. It's no accident that his best, later fights were against a few former greats, who had deteriorated enough down to Marciano's level, to make them "good" fights. Roland LaStarza aged 22 actually beat him, but with a little imaginative arithmetic between the judges and ref Marciano emerged the winner.

Look it up, do a bit of research, then think about it.......

Okay, I thought Marciano was 49-0 but hey he must have lost to LaStarza because you said so...Look up LaStarza's second chance at Marciano too.You could find him on the scorer's table KTFO'd after Marciano broke every blood vessel in his left arm prior to KO. Marciano beat a 37 year old ATG named Joe Louis who was 66-2 going into that fight !!! He also beat EVERYONE in his era that was there at HW to fight. You can only fight the HW that are in your era that are good-great. Larry Holmes was an excellent HW Champ.It wasn't his fault that he had 1 worthy challenger in his prime.

Ali..not even in my top 8 HW ATG.He was a very good HW who was constantly kissing canvas and stealing decision wins (See ass-beatings from Ken Norton).

ATG HW :

The Brown Bomber #1
Brockton Blockbuster #2
Lennox Lewis # 3
Dempsey #4
Vladimir KO #5
Real Deal Holyfield # 6
Easton Assassin Holmes #7
Dr Ironfist # 8
Ali # 9

[LacedUp]

no way is he the best HW ever
Lewis deserves ATG status at HW for sure
but the Klit era has caused him to be overrated in recent yrs
people are longing for better days, so he's put on a pedestal

To be fair to him, a lot of people like George Foreman was claiming he was the greatest after Holyfield and Tyson.

But I agree that the klit era has elevated his esteem.