Reason's Why Wladimir Klitschko Is Not An ATG

[DreamFighter]

In my opinion I think Wlads dominance is being underrated here, Hopkins middleweight reign is lauded, apart from two naturally smaller fighters moving up, who is there during those 20 defences? Wladimir dominating byrd twice, ibragimov and chagaev is impressive. Coming off there recent form going into the first fight with Peter, that was a very impressive victory. He might be lacking in one huge win, but that isn't the definition of greatness. Is Moorer an ATG for his win over a prime holyfield, Douglas for a win over a prime Tyson. How about schmelings knockout of an undefeated, prime joe Louis, does this make him a top 3 ATG?

a single outstanding win against amazing opps make you HoF, surely?

they don't make you an ATG. That requires more IMHO.

[croz]

37. thanks for not checking your facts, which was necessary as the gap between post prime and retired.

Wlad=37 post prime

Vit =41 should be retired.
.

I didn't think it needed to be said, but you are apparently are that dense. There is a big difference between 37 now and 37 then. The average life expectancy in those days was between 40-50 years old. Medical and health standards have improved significantly since then. If you think 37 is old enough now it was practically ancient back then.

[DreamFighter]

I didn't think it needed to be said, but you are apparently are that dense.

theres is a big difference between 37 and 40 as well. That's not my mistake, its yours.

I didn't think you were that dense as to not be able to count that far and assume they were the same number, when they are three years apart.

[croz]

theres is a big difference between 37 and 40 as well. That's not my mistake, its yours.

I didn't think you were that dense as to not be able to count that far and assume they were the same number, when they are three years apart.

do you even have any valid arguments?

PS. you can stop sucking the old guys' ****s. Black and white doesn't really taste like candy.

[DreamFighter]

I said 37-38. You want it down to a tee or something? Because he could have potentially been closer to 38 which is why I gave that range.

potentially he was not, and factually he was not. His birthday was in March, and the fight was in April. He was MUCH closer to 36, 38 was a long way off.

We share birthdays which is why I remember this.

[croz]

potentially he was not, and factually he was not. His birthday was in March, and the fight was in April. He was MUCH closer to 36, 38 was a long way off.

We share birthdays which is why I remember this.

Do you have any valid arguments or are you just butt hurt to know that Wlad keeps a better record than Jack Johnson?

[ShamrockXpress]

a single outstanding win against amazing opps make you HoF, surely?

they don't make you an ATG. That requires more IMHO.

Of course this makes you HOF worthy, but by not making you ATG worthy, it should also prove that not having this win doesn't mean you cant be an ATG. Wlad has dominated his division, completely dominating his opposition, the only viable threat he hasn't faced is vitali, which is understandable. What PRIME ATGs did Lewis beat? Or Holyfield beat? Or Tyson? Or Liston? Where they only beaten by ATGs?

[DreamFighter]

do you even have any valid arguments?

interesting question, seeing as that question replaces your argument that you deleted once you'd realised it was not valid.

11/10 for self irony, mind you.

[Banderivets]

so its not a given he beats them

It's not a given I agree. But he has the potential to beat any heavweight in the history of the sport. Just like many others had the potential to beat him, but given his recent development it is clear that he has become very good at hiding his weaknesses.

Look. One of the reasons that I like Wlad is because he is my countryman. But he is not even in my top 5 when it comes to my "favorite" heavyweights. He just doesn't excite me as much as many other fighters have.

But the guy simply does not get enough respect. People are living in the past and bring up guys like Louis, and Johnson and Dempsey, and sure you could say they were better fighters, they had a great impact on the sport, they are simply bigger figures that Wlad will ever be. But the man still whoops their ass when they step in the ring.

Heavyweight boxing had one golden decade and people think that this was the case throughout history. Sorry but that was just not the case.

Forget Wlad...I will say that todays top 5 will beat the bulk of the champions of the past. Times have changed. Guys are bigger, stronger faster, more refined. They might throw fewer punches but they throw them well and that is all the need to throw.

Joe Louis fought one guy with un defeated record his whole career, and he only had 8 fights!

The past...this great historic period people like to bring up is when boxers were a bunch of lumber jacks and furniture movers. They were not professional fighters. Guys like Wlad have been honed to fight professionally since they were 12 years old! What historic fighter can say the same? Years of amateurs, olympics, pro....

I do not take anything away from them, they have their place in history but times have changed.

Sorry but anyone pre-Ali does not beat a modern seasoned elite heavyweight. I can pick maybe 3-4 fighters starting from 1960 that would still cause havoc today. And anyone before that I'm sorry but Lennox would have all of them.

If you do not agree that is fine, but thats my philosophy, and to be honest, I think that is the case with all the sports. Watching grid iron of the past or basketball and watching it today is night and day difference. I see boxing the same way.

[BattlingNelson]

Spinks is arguably the greatest LHW ever.

Yep. A case can certainly be made for Spinks. He was the best in perhaps the greatest ever LHW era.

I am not sure how you can win an argument claiming he was a nothing, but you are welcome to try.

You can if you focus solely on resume at HW. Not exactly a nobody, but it's weak in the all-time picture.