Comments Thread For: Memo Heredia Says His Boxers Will Be Tested, With USADA

[radioraheem]

I don't know if maxboxing is biased towards whomever, sounds more like an opinion. Any information about prior test results I got from bscene.com. I did not say he works FOR USADA, I said he has worked WITH USADA and it was hypocritcal of him to distrust VADA because of any affiliation they may have had with Conte.

"I've been working with USADA for six years" That's as of 12/04/2012, speaking in present tense, not past.

http://www.boxingscene.com/marquez-h...s-conte--60083

Don't take this the wrong way, but you replied to my original post as if to refute something I said, and yet you haven't. Is it that you just want me to talk more about VADA? Whatever mistakes VADA may have made with their timing in releasing results to the promoters...they caught ped users and the fights thankfully did not continue, as they should have not. It's not perfect (nor can it be), but I can't help but appreciate that more than doing away with test results because 'there wasn't enough time to explain what was or was not a banned substance.' It just doesn't sit well with me.

Again, we revert back to my original post. All that **** aside about whether this or that was or was not a mistake - Memo is being hypocritcal about not wanting to work with VADA, although he says the protocols are the same, for the mere fact that they've worked with Conte. If the protocols are the same, what are you afraid of? Not to mention he's gone on record and said he's assisted USADA himself.

And thanks for that interview, I'm gald they changed their stance. Although, I would assume if Mosley tested positive, Canelo would have been informed and it would have escalated thereafter. There's the possibility we wouldn't have been informed so glad that information is made public now.

Memo isn't the most trustworthy source. Memo has made various claims that have been proven to be false. Some things he says is truth, but there's a variety of false comments he makes. USADA has gone on record saying they do not work with him, and especially haven't worked with him for six years. Lol. USADA also ignores Victor Conte to the fullest.

Your talk about why Memo won't work with USADA, is the same as asking why Victor Conte doesn't want any of his fighters tested by USADA. Keep in mind, USADA is the organization that put Conte in hot water (after being tipped off by Trevor Graham, who worked with Memo). It is also this reason that Conte personally has a vendetta against USADA and Memo, and makes false claims about USADA any chance he gets. Realize too that, almost everyday, Victor Conte is attacking Memo on Twitter. It is VERY personal, and not just business. So it is completely fine if Memo doesn't want to allow his fighters to go with VADA. The question is will he really have them tested with USADA?

And yes, VADA has changed, and USADA has changed as well. And both organizations are still prone to making mistakes in the future. Not everything is perfected yet. For the Mosley-Canelo fight, you have things confused. They used USADA, not VADA... Golden Boy only uses USADA now. If they had used VADA, then either fight could have did what Peterson did. Where Peterson told VADA not to tell Golden Boy or the Commission or Team Khan. And sadly VADA kept silent. But that was back then in history.

[ADP02]

You assume that Marquez is guilty by association; however before his 3rd fight with Pacquiao, the first time that Marquez worked with Heredia, the Pacquiao camp started making rumblings about possible cheating. Marquez said he was willing to take a blood test, and the Pacquiao team declined.

For the 4th fight again the Pacquiao team; primarily Freddie Roach, started yapping his gums about Marquez working with Heredia, and again Marquez came out and said lets BOTH submit to random testing. Pacquiao's team once again said no. Ariza came out and told Roach not to talk about Heredia anymore.

Who would you suspect had something to hide?

Both times it was when the fighters had already signed the contract and had already been training for a while that the discussions came up.

With just a few weeks to the fight and by the time they would sit down and agree on everything and actually get the agency to do the testing more time would have gone by and by then with just a few weeks remaining, it would have meant nothing.

[FloydvsPac]

You assume that Marquez is guilty by association; however before his 3rd fight with Pacquiao, the first time that Marquez worked with Heredia, the Pacquiao camp started making rumblings about possible cheating. Marquez said he was willing to take a blood test, and the Pacquiao team declined.

For the 4th fight again the Pacquiao team; primarily Freddie Roach, started yapping his gums about Marquez working with Heredia, and again Marquez came out and said lets BOTH submit to random testing. Pacquiao's team once again said no. Ariza came out and told Roach not to talk about Heredia anymore.

Who would you suspect had something to hide?

JMM has been suspected of PEDs ever since he hooked up with Memo. It's not only guilt by association. JMM's old age and performance says it all. Pac isn't innocent either. But the evidence is more obvious against JMM than Pac. Though every Pac hater has been claiming that he stopped taking PEDs for his last 3-4 fights because he underperformed. And those fights included 2 against JMM. So basically according to Pac haters, Pac was never on PEDs during all the JMM fights, which makes JMM on PEDs during their last 2 fights. Right before the last fight, Ariza was worried since Pacquiao was OFF HIS STRENGTH AND CONDITIONING PROGRAM. Personally, I think that Ariza's methods can avoid PED detection just as good as Memo's. But it's ironic when haters still point the finger at Pacquiao even after they claim he's been off PEDs because of his less than stellar performances in his last 3-4 fights.

[SCEN3RY]

Memo isn't the most trustworthy source. Memo has made various claims that have been proven to be false. Some things he says is truth, but there's a variety of false comments he makes. USADA has gone on record saying they do not work with him, and especially haven't worked with him for six years. Lol. USADA also ignores Victor Conte to the fullest.

Your talk about why Memo won't work with USADA, is the same as asking why Victor Conte doesn't want any of his fighters tested by USADA. Keep in mind, USADA is the organization that put Conte in hot water (after being tipped off by Trevor Graham, who worked with Memo). It is also this reason that Conte personally has a vendetta against USADA and Memo, and makes false claims about USADA any chance he gets. Realize too that, almost everyday, Victor Conte is attacking Memo on Twitter. It is VERY personal, and not just business. So it is completely fine if Memo doesn't want to allow his fighters to go with VADA. The question is will he really have them tested with USADA?

I'm not under the impression the guy is trustworthy, I've just yet to hear USADA deny it, and he's stated it a number of times. Otherwise, point taken, but I thought I should note, Conte's personal feelings towards USADA or vice versa, none of that **** really matters. Nothing I've said thus far was based on something I heard Conte say. I'm sure there are a number of lies out there, I don't think either of us knows the half of it.

My point goes beyond that. You say this (bold) like Conte works FOR VADA and Memo fears he'll tamper with the results or whatever, yet he doesn't mention not trusting VADA at all. His concern seems to be the prices of USADA, yet he claims the protocols are the same under VADA. If it's not that he mistrusts VADA, why not work with the cheaper alternative? Unless, there's something he knows...it's all speculation from here, but do you see where it doesn't add up?

I personally lean towards VADA, I appreciate their track record in boxing more.

And yes, VADA has changed, and USADA has changed as well. And both organizations are still prone to making mistakes in the future. Not everything is perfected yet. For the Mosley-Canelo fight, you have things confused. They used USADA, not VADA... Golden Boy only uses USADA now. If they had used VADA, then either fight could have did what Peterson did. Where Peterson told VADA not to tell Golden Boy or the Commission or Team Khan. And sadly VADA kept silent. But that was back then in history.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=540402

[Redd Foxx]

It's hilarious to read these claims about Memo and Conte 'designing' undetectable drugs. These guys don't do jack **** on the production or design side. They're strictly middle men who source the stuff. Conte had to rely on chemist Patrick Arnold for designer drugs like THG because Arnold actually has a degree in chemistry, worked in the industry, and has/had a full scale chemistry lab near the UIC campus where he spent all his time researching and reproducing steroids/substances that, for whatever reason, never came to market.

That's like saying a film producer has nothing to do with the making of a movie because he doesn't work the cameras. He's overseeing the product being brought to market, same as Memo.

[radioraheem]

I'm not under the impression the guy is trustworthy, I've just yet to hear USADA deny it, and he's stated it a number of times. Otherwise, point taken, but I thought I should note, Conte's personal feelings towards USADA or vice versa, none of that **** really matters. Nothing I've said thus far was based on something I heard Conte say. I'm sure there are a number of lies out there, I don't think either of us knows the half of it.

My point goes beyond that. You say this (bold) like Conte works FOR VADA and Memo fears he'll tamper with the results or whatever, yet he doesn't mention not trusting VADA at all. His concern seems to be the prices of USADA, yet he claims the protocols are the same under VADA. If it's not that he mistrusts VADA, why not work with the cheaper alternative? Unless, there's something he knows...it's all speculation from here, but do you see where it doesn't add up?

I personally lean towards VADA, I appreciate their track record in boxing more.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=540402

USADA does not deal with Memo (they've actually gone on record saying this in the past). They have also went on record dissing Conte. Anyways, even Conte knows Memo is telling lies about his ties with USADA.

Your original postings, were very much influenced by Conte writers. And I say this because it lacked both sides of the story. There's always two sides, and there are usually no saints.

Memo hinted that Conte could use his influence in the VADA testing (see the recent Boxing Scene interview). There are other critics that have voiced these same concerns, that there is a conflict of interest in having an infamous dope dealer tied with an anti-doping organization. For this very reason, USADA stays far away from both Conte and Memo. VADA is more stubborn about it.

Personally, I don't think either Conte or Memo should be involved in boxing in any capacity. But they are both in boxing because it is the most corrupt sport where the rules are a joke, and there's no rules for gaining entry. They are both in boxing for the same exact reasons! But Conte started the race first, before Memo jumped in. Now that Memo is here, Conte is boiling with rage. The irony...

The differences between VADA/USADA is cost and reputation. USADA has a greater reputation and deals with a variety of sports, but is much higher in cost. VADA costs much less, but has much less of a reputation as they are new (which means they are easier prey for corruption). USADA has a lot more people to answer to, including the U.S. government. And despite these differences, VADA and USADA render the same results. They are one in the same. There is no "better." In the future, we'll likely see more USADA mistakes by default since they'll be covering much more fights than VADA.

The Mosley-Canelo fight... LOL. I got confused my damn self.

[josenoway]

LMAO, neither guy oversees anything. Whatever Arnold or a dedicated chemist can synthesize is what they offer guys like Conte and Memo. For example, the first compound that served as the basis for the 'Clear' that Conte offered his athletes was Genabol/norbolethone, a long forgotten anabolic steroid that Wyeth Pharmaceuticals had created in the 60's to treat growth disorders in children. Wyeth eventually abandoned Genabol's development because toxicology studies suggested possible side effects in humans. Chemists like Patrick Arnold dig through old manuscripts and publications in order to rediscover such compounds. People need to understand that guys like Conte and Memo have zero say in what drugs become available to them. They do not call up chemists like Patrick Arnold and tell them to synthesize compound X, Y, or Z. Whatever Arnold can produce is what they'll use. Neither Conte or Memo have the fundamentals in organic chemistry to monkey with drug design, and even if they did, both would have to eat/sleep/**** in the lab 24/7 to work on synthesis.

That's like saying a film producer has nothing to do with the making of a movie because he doesn't work the cameras. He's overseeing the product being brought to market, same as Memo.

[Redd Foxx]

LMAO, neither guy oversees anything. Whatever Arnold or a dedicated chemist can synthesize is what they offer guys like Conte and Memo. For example, the first compound that served as the basis for the 'Clear' that Conte offered his athletes was Genabol/norbolethone, a long forgotten anabolic steroid that Wyeth Pharmaceuticals had created in the 60's to treat growth disorders in children. Wyeth eventually abandoned Genabol's development because toxicology studies suggested possible side effects in humans. Chemists like Patrick Arnold dig through old manuscripts and publications in order to rediscover such compounds. People need to understand that guys like Conte and Memo have zero say in what drugs become available to them. They do not call up chemists like Patrick Arnold and tell them to synthesize compound X, Y, or Z. Whatever Arnold can produce is what they'll use. Neither Conte or Memo have the fundamentals in organic chemistry to monkey with drug design, and even if they did, both would have to eat/sleep/**** in the lab 24/7 to work on synthesis.

In your rant, you completely overlooked my point. The guys that put the product to use DO dictate what is USED. If there is no market for something, no one is developing it. If you're going on a masturbatory chemistry rant to hear yourself talk, ok. But, to act as if Memo has no role in what becomes available to athletes is nonsense. I followed that market for several years and the money dictates everything.

[josenoway]

No they don't. They don't dictate jack ****. They use only what's available to them and that often is short-lived (Conte had at least one panic attack when he mistakenly believed the Clear was discovered and ordered his Olympians to stop using it). Stop pretending like Memo or Conte do anything other than source PEDs. Conte's storage locker near Balco where he kept his compounds was full of normal everyday **** like Winstrol. Neither guy has any active role in what gets made or becomes available. Conte doesn't even know how to compound for god's sake, he was getting the 'Cream' from a pharmacist in in another state who mixed the testosterone/epitestosterone cream in the correct ratio.

Go ahead, please tell me what Memo's role is. Does he sift through outdated East German scientific publications looking for potential candidate compounds that no test currently exist for? What lab does he spend any time in synthesizing? Go ahead, enlighten me on how Memo or Conte have any hand in drug development. Whatever compounds rogue chemists like Arnold create are what Memo and Conte source. End of story.

In your rant, you completely overlooked my point. The guys that put the product to use DO dictate what is USED. If there is no market for something, no one is developing it. If you're going on a masturbatory chemistry rant to hear yourself talk, ok. But, to act as if Memo has no role in what becomes available to athletes is nonsense. I followed that market for several years and the money dictates everything.

[SCEN3RY]

USADA does not deal with Memo (they've actually gone on record saying this in the past). They have also went on record dissing Conte. Anyways, even Conte knows Memo is telling lies about his ties with USADA.

Your original postings, were very much influenced by Conte writers. And I say this because it lacked both sides of the story. There's always two sides, and there are usually no saints.

Memo hinted that Conte could use his influence in the VADA testing (see the recent Boxing Scene interview). There are other critics that have voiced these same concerns, that there is a conflict of interest in having an infamous dope dealer tied with an anti-doping organization. For this very reason, USADA stays far away from both Conte and Memo. VADA is more stubborn about it.

Personally, I don't think either Conte or Memo should be involved in boxing in any capacity. But they are both in boxing because it is the most corrupt sport where the rules are a joke, and there's no rules for gaining entry. They are both in boxing for the same exact reasons! But Conte started the race first, before Memo jumped in. Now that Memo is here, Conte is boiling with rage. The irony...

The differences between VADA/USADA is cost and reputation. USADA has a greater reputation and deals with a variety of sports, but is much higher in cost. VADA costs much less, but has much less of a reputation as they are new (which means they are easier prey for corruption). USADA has a lot more people to answer to, including the U.S. government. And despite these differences, VADA and USADA render the same results. They are one in the same. There is no "better." In the future, we'll likely see more USADA mistakes by default since they'll be covering much more fights than VADA.

The Mosley-Canelo fight... LOL. I got confused my damn self.

I don't know what to tell you, man. I can't explain if my writing is based on Conte influenced journalists (don't even believe he has that kind of pull) since I still haven't said anything that hasn't been written about on this website and my main point is and was directly related to THIS article, in response to Memo's comments. Anyways, I'm just not falling for it. The guy says vada too follows wada protocol, but he fears conte's puppets. Even if there were puppets of some kind, which I don't believe there are, if the testing is overseen by wada, what's there to fear? Sounds like an excuse to me, but I guess that's where we differ.

It's been an interesting conversation, man. Appreciate the time and thoughtful responses. Btw, out of curiosity, could you provide me with a link where usada says they do not or have not worked with Memo, since I provided you with a link where he says he has.