Do you trust Victor Conte and VADA?

[Dr Rumack]

Berto just seems too lazy for that.

Berto's positive test was ruled to be the result of contamination. The quan****** of banned substance found (nandro I think) were too small to be performance enhancing was the ruling if I remember correctly.

[New England]

Its not fake at all. Hes spent decades working with olympic athletes and sprinters. Explosive power which goes hand in hand.
He taught Alex Ariza just about all he knows regarding nutrition, circuit training etc etc

Hes more qualified than Conte.

he proclaims himself as a chemist. that's where his expertise lies.


the guy is very obviously a PED cheat. he's been busted for it before, and worked as an informant for the government in a massive steroid ring that supplied world class athletes with top flight PED's.


hell, he is on youtube in a german documentary buying steroids in mexico, and putting them into his own stomach with a needle.

[DoktorSleepless]

He taught Alex Ariza just about all he knows regarding nutrition, circuit training etc etc.

I heard this myself, but can you give me a source with that? That doesn't even make sense because Alex Ariza has a Bachelor in Exercise and Nutritional Sciences. Pretty sure Heredia wasn't a professor.

[gmc_rfc_06]

Not at all. Just post what I said in the other thread...

Taking year round testing while working with Conte isn't the most meaningful thing.

Conte is known for creating undetectable substances as well as methods, that in his own words 'could beat even the most advanced testing'. So, taking year round testing while working under the master of beating testing, who also had input into VADA's own testing procedures, is irrelevant IMO.

Not pointing fingers, but I find it extremely suspect that athletes would willingly seek the help of what is a PED guru. Hypoxic training can be done in other places as well as everything else, so any athlete who is involved with him is somewhat suspect to me.

[Dr Rumack]

Hes more qualified than Conte.

Conte seemed to be a bit of a quack in the early days. It's when he hooked up with the chemists like Patrick Arnold that he got serious.

It's also a little know fact that Conte played bass for 70's funk band Tower of Power.

[New England]

I heard this myself, but can you give me a source with that? That doesn't even make sense because Alex Ariza has a Bachelor of Science in Exercise and Nutritional Sciences. Pretty sure Heredia wasn't a professor.

these guys change their stories constantly. who the hell knows the nature of their relationship.


if i could only pick two guys to remove from the sport it would be those two cheating bastards.

[New England]

Conte seemed to be a bit of a quack in the early days. It's when he hooked up with the chemists like Patrick Arnold that he got serious.

It's also a little know fact that Conte played bass for 70's funk band Tower of Power.

are you being serious, or just making a solid funny?

[Dr Rumack]

he proclaims himself as a chemist. that's where his expertise lies.


the guy is very obviously a PED cheat. he's been busted for it before, and worked as an informant for the government in a massive steroid ring that supplied world class athletes with top flight PED's.


hell, he is on youtube in a german documentary buying steroids in mexico, and putting them into his own stomach with a needle.

Some Heredia quotes from that documentary:

"I read anything I could find about medicine, spoke with other athletes, and soon people were saying: Angel knows how it's done. He knows how to pass the tests. The first athletes began to ask me for advice. That's how it started, and at some point the trainer Trevor Graham asked me if I could help him. I explained to him how epo works, and I was in business."

"My father is a chemistry professor. I love chemistry, and I was an athlete. My role was an obsession. For example, I learned everything about testosterone: that there is a type of testosterone with a high half-life and another that works very quickly. I learned that you can rub it in, take it orally, inject it. It became a kick: I was allowed to work with the best of the best, and I made them even better."

"You want an example? Everyone talks about epo. Epo is fashionable. But without adding iron, epo only works half as well. That's the kind of thing you have to know. There are oxygen carriers that make epo work incredibly fast – they are actually better than epo alone. I call my drug "Epo Boost." I inject it and it releases many tiny oxygen molecules throughout the body. In that way you increase the effect of epo by a factor of ten."

"There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they don't excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. I've created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers."

"I had one substance called actovison that increased blood circulation – not detectable. That was good from a health standpoint and even better from a competitive standpoint. Then we had the growth factors IGF-1 and IGF-2. And epo. Epo increases the number of red blood cells and thus the transportation of oxygen, which is the key for every athlete: the athlete wants to recover quickly, keep the load at a constantly high level and achieve a constant performance."

"We have used creams that leave no trace and give the athlete a steadily higher testosterone levels."

"Yes, the only difference is the quality of the doping. Athletes with little money use simple steroids and hope they don't get tested. The stars earn 50,000 dollars a month, not including starting bonuses and shoe sponsorship contracts. The very best invest 100,000 dollars – I'll then build you a designer drug that can't be detected."

"Designer drugs are composed of several different chemicals that trigger the desired reaction. At the end of the chain I change one or two molecules in such a way that the entire structure is undetectable for the doping testers."

"What's happening now is laughable. It's a token. They should save their money – or give it to me. I'll give it to the orphans of Mexico! There will be doping for as long as there is commercial sports, performance-related shoe contracts and television."

"Peak performances without doping are a fairytale, my friend."

"I believe we should authorize the use of epo, IGF and testosterone, as well as adrenaline and epitestosterone – substances that the body produces itself. Simply for pragmatic reasons, because it is impossible to detect them, and also because of the fairness aspect."

"Track and field, swimming, cross-country skiing and cycling can no longer be saved. Golf? Not clean either. Soccer? Soccer players come to me and say they have to be able to run up and down the touchline without becoming tired, and they have to play every three days. Basketball players take fat burners – amphetamines, ephedrin. Baseball? Haha. Steroids in pre-season, amphetamines during the games. Even archers take downers so that their arm remains steady. Everyone dopes."

[dan_cov]

I was thinking the same thing.....I'm sure Conte's approach is more scientific. I'm thinking "take this at exactly 12:38am with .84 liters of water (no more no less), run it off at 8:52am for 3 miles, suck this lemon 3 times to mess up the pH but not too much, piss at 11:02" type of situation.

Berto just seems too lazy for that.

Disagree; the last steroid he would of gave/recommended Berto or any athlete is Deca Durabolin which is detectable for up to 18 months.

[Bermuda]

Not at all. Just post what I said in the other thread...

did conte really make the steroids while he was at balco? i'm pretty sure he didn't do **** when it came to making steroids ..instead he hired some ped chemist to do all of that..but do you have a source that says that conte knows how to make undetectable peds..as far as i know it's heredia who has boasted about making undetectable peds in an interview with spiegel online...