How About my Top 25 ATG List?

[joseph5620]

Give me one good reason why you would have Hagler over Monzon. I personally like them both, probably my favorite two middleweights of all time.

Monzon: 14 successful lineal middleweight title defences.
Wins over: Benvenuti x2, Griffin x2, Valdez x2, Briscoe, Napoles

Hagler: 12 successful lineal middleweight title defences
Wins over: Thomas Hearns, Vito Antufermo, Alan Minter, Mugabi, Duran

Neither Alan Minter nor Vito Antuofermo as champions were as good or proven as Nino Benvenuti.

Another problem with some of Hagler's best wins is that many of them were moving up in weight: Thomas Hearns started as a welterweight and had been fighting at 154 before the Hagler fight, Mugabi (5'8) was a small middleweight and moved back down to 154 after the fight, Duran (5'7) started at 135 and was past prime by the time he fought Hagler.

You can make a make a similar argument about Monzon, particularly when he fought Napoles (5'8). However, the same can't be said about Griffin and Benvenuti as the two had extensive careers at middleweight where they became lineal champions before Monzon fought them.

Nevertheless Hagler fought the best opposition available (in a very good era) to him at the time and is undoubtedly an ATG middleweight.

Monzon's (14-0, 9KOs) reign outlasted Hagler's (12-1, 11KOs) and unlike Hagler, he was never defeated as champion.

Hearns was a legitimate middleweight who came into the fight heavier than Hagler with a substantial height and reach advantage. His KO's over Shular and Roldan proved he belonged there. Hagler did not have any kind of size advantages over Hearns. I don't even list the Mugabi fight as one of Hagler's greatest wins. But if you point out how small Mugabi was you can't ignore Griffen's size without using a double standard. Also, Benvenuti was way past his prime when he fought Monzon. That win is not even on par with Hagler beating Bennier Briscoe. You can't point out Duran being past his best without acknowledging that.

[IronDanHamza]

My Top 10 changes often but the names are usually the same. Here's mine;

1. Ray Robinson
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Archie Moore
10. Jimmy Mclarnin

[joseph5620]

1. Ray Robinson
2. Hank Armstrong
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Ezzard Charles
6. Muhammad Ali
7. Ben Leonard
8. Roberto Duran
9. Archie Moore
10. Ray Leonard
______
11. Willie Pep
12. Mickey Walker
13. Bob Fitzimmons
14. Joe Gans
15. Barney Ross
16. Pernell Whitaker
17. Joe Louis
18. Jimmy McClarnin
19. Roy Jones
20. Jimmy Wilde
____________
21. Julio Cesar Chavez
22. Bernard Hopkins
23. Tommy Hearns
24. Eder Jofre
25. Marvin Hagler

I think it's a pretty good list. I personally would change some of the numbers, but it's not a bad list at all.

[joseph5620]

My Top 10 changes often but the names are usually the same. Here's mine;

1. Ray Robinson
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Archie Moore
10. Jimmy Mclarnin

Have you ever had Armstrong higher than 5?

[UrDazed]

My Top 10 changes often but the names are usually the same. Here's mine;

1. Ray Robinson
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Archie Moore
10. Jimmy Mclarnin

I like it. But armstrong at 5? He has the greatest accomplishment in the history of boxing, and against ATG competition. I cringe at him being out of a top 3 ATG list

[joseph5620]

I like it. But armstrong at 5? He has the greatest accomplishment in the history of boxing, and against ATG competition. I cringe at him being out of a top 3 ATG list

I agree. I would put Armstrong no lower than three.

[IronDanHamza]

I like it. But armstrong at 5? He has the greatest accomplishment in the history of boxing, and against ATG competition. I cringe at him being out of a top 3 ATG list

Could easily see him being ranked anywhere from #1-#5.

I just think that those 4 have slightly better resumes but of course it's arguable.

[UrDazed]

Could easily see him being ranked anywhere from #1-#5.

I just think that those 4 have slightly better resumes but of course it's arguable.

I wish Armstrong had fought Williams at lightweight.

[JAB5239]

Can you please tell me what fights you saw from each and every one of the older greats to make you come up with the list? I'd like that thank you. There can never be an accurate list. If you didn't see them fight, just reading about them doesn't cut it.

No there can never be a list that's totally accurate being that its opinion based. But there is plenty of film out there of almost every fighter and reading about plus film of fighters and their opponents does cut it. To say it doesn't is to say everybody who saw them was lying so many years ago so they would be overrated today.

[UrDazed]

I agree. I would put Armstrong no lower than three.

Sometimes I have he and Greb top 1 and 2