How About my Top 25 ATG List?

[UrDazed]

What's wrong with Greb? His resume is amazing.

Yeah I just ignored him. He could even be #1 really. Fought anyone, and beat everyone.

Dempsey even ducked him.

[teddycanyon]

Pretty consistent with Bert Sugar's list. Joe Louis should be a LOT higher though IMO. I also think you got Ezzard Charles and Ben Leonard a bit too high, those guys aren't top 10 from what I've seen + read. I'd stick Hagler, Willie Pep and Louis in the top 10, put Moore above Duran, and Ali #3 after Armstrong.

[BafanaBafana]

Nah.

Greb
Robinson
Hagler
Monzon
Hopkins

Give me one good reason why you would have Hagler over Monzon. I personally like them both, probably my favorite two middleweights of all time.

Monzon: 14 successful lineal middleweight title defences.
Wins over: Benvenuti x2, Griffin x2, Valdez x2, Briscoe, Napoles

Hagler: 12 successful lineal middleweight title defences
Wins over: Thomas Hearns, Vito Antufermo, Alan Minter, Mugabi, Duran

Neither Alan Minter nor Vito Antuofermo as champions were as good or proven as Nino Benvenuti.

Another problem with some of Hagler's best wins is that many of them were moving up in weight: Thomas Hearns started as a welterweight and had been fighting at 154 before the Hagler fight, Mugabi (5'8) was a small middleweight and moved back down to 154 after the fight, Duran (5'7) started at 135 and was past prime by the time he fought Hagler.

You can make a make a similar argument about Monzon, particularly when he fought Napoles (5'8). However, the same can't be said about Griffin and Benvenuti as the two had extensive careers at middleweight where they became lineal champions before Monzon fought them.

Nevertheless Hagler fought the best opposition available (in a very good era) to him at the time and is undoubtedly an ATG middleweight.

Monzon's (14-0, 9KOs) reign outlasted Hagler's (12-1, 11KOs) and unlike Hagler, he was never defeated as champion.

[teddycanyon]

also, no Marciano?

[UrDazed]

Pretty consistent with Bert Sugar's list. Joe Louis should be a LOT higher though IMO. I also think you got Ezzard Charles and Ben Leonard a bit too high, those guys aren't top 10 from what I've seen + read. I'd stick Hagler, Willie Pep and Louis in the top 10, put Moore above Duran, and Ali #3 after Armstrong.

Charles beat Louis, and Beat Moore. That's 2 guys he owned in (which would be YOUR) personal top 10 list.

So how could Charles be too high?

[JAB5239]

Pretty consistent with Bert Sugar's list. Joe Louis should be a LOT higher though IMO. I also think you got Ezzard Charles and Ben Leonard a bit too high, those guys aren't top 10 from what I've seen + read. I'd stick Hagler, Willie Pep and Louis in the top 10, put Moore above Duran, and Ali #3 after Armstrong.

What have you seen and read to suggest that about Charles and Leonard? Both are arguably the best fighters of all time in their respective best divisions and have incredible resumes.

[BafanaBafana]

Nah.

Greb
Robinson
Hagler
Monzon
Hopkins

At middleweight, Monzon should be ranked higher than Robinson. Robinson's best work was done at welterweight (where he only lost once--to LaMotta), his winning the middleweight title just enhanced his overall legacy, but he still lost a lot of times at 160 and was never able to hold the title for long or make many official title defences--I think he lost about 5 middleweight title fights during his time at the weight.

[JAB5239]

Thought I did a top 25 a while back but can't find it. Here's a quick 20. the only ones Im dfead set in their spot about are the first 6.

1. Langford
2. Greb
3. Robinson
4. Armstrong
5. Charles
6. Fitzsimmons
7. B. Leonard
8. Pep
9. Duran
10. Gans
11. Walker
12. Moore
13. Ali
14. R. Leonard
15. Ross
16. Canzoneri
17. McLarnin
18. Conn
19. Louis
20. Tunney

[IronDanHamza]

UrDazed? Any relation to IMDAZED?

Good list.

Don't agree with all of the selections, mainly Chavez.

But, very respectful list none the less.

[UrDazed]

UrDazed? Any relation to IMDAZED?

Good list.

Don't agree with all of the selections, mainly Chavez.

But, very respectful list none the less.

haha i have been reading the forum for a LONG time and the name I wanted was taken and I had just read an imdazed post so I thought what the hell why not

and i had to best mexico's finest at least in the top 20 though. i dont know, it just seemed right. and the whole 90+ without a loss is still impressive for me. he beat a solid amount of guys

your thoughts on fitzimmons? Im a bit underwhelmed on him