Is Andre Ward comparible to Pre-Pacquiao Tim Bradley?

[Spiegelo]

What exactly are you trying to argue here? He was the one definitely pressing the action and moving FORWARD in the Witter fight. Even the Showtime commentators made a note of this in the 7th round when one of them stated that Bradley is "content to pull his way FORWARD and fight on the the inside." You admit that he pressured against Holt. You admit that he pressured against Campbell.

Again, the Peterson fight MIGHT be the only fight in recent memory that doesn't fit Bradley's pressure style.

I will have to watch the Abregu fight again to gauge your assessment of it.

With that said, a MAJORITY OF THE FIGHTS YOU MENTIONED were indicative of Bradley's pressure style.

Really? So you'd say his performance against Pacquiao was that of a pressure fighter? I don't think he's the one-dimensional pressure fighter you're describing. He's definitely not on par with Ward in terms of skill, but he was a very good light welterweight and there's blatant similarities in their styles. I think that's obvious.

There's different types of pressure. He's not like Margarito, throwing combos with no jab and eating whatever comes his way. He was moving in and out against Witter. He walked in landing jabs to the body, waiting for Witter to throw. As soon as Witter stopped backpedaling, Bradley took that step back. He was slipping shots with his hands down, then catching him with headbutts on the inside. All things Ward does, just Ward does it better and more consistently.

And even against Campbell, he started off backing up and boxing until headbutt #24 caused that cut.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, don't watch the Abregu fight.
You're welcome.

[The Evil 1-2]

Really? So you'd say his performance against Pacquiao was that of a pressure fighter? I don't think he's the one-dimensional pressure fighter you're describing. He's definitely not on par with Ward in terms of skill, but he was a very good light welterweight and there's blatant similarities in their styles. I think that's obvious.

There's different types of pressure. He's not like Margarito, throwing combos with no jab and eating whatever comes his way. He was moving in and out against Witter. He walked in landing jabs to the body, waiting for Witter to throw. As soon as Witter stopped backpedaling, Bradley took that step back. He was slipping shots with his hands down, then catching him with headbutts on the inside. All things Ward does, just Ward does it better and more consistently.

And even against Campbell, he started off backing up and boxing until headbutt #24 caused that cut.

Basically what I'm trying to say is, don't watch the Abregu fight.
You're welcome.

You're committing a blatant Strawman fallacy. I never said that he primarily employed a pressure style against Pacquiao. He tried to box from the outside, but failed miserably because THAT'S JUST NOT HIS STYLE. Hopefully, you're not one of those people that believes Bradley genuinely won that fight.

Sure, there are certain nuances in different types of pressure. However, pressure is still pressure. To try to categorize Bradley as this technician who can box and slip punches is ridiculous. He was the aggressor moving FORWARD in the Witter bout. Again, this was substantiated by even the commentating.

As for the Campbell fight, you're completely flip-flopping. First, you state that he pressured forward against him. Now, you state that he backed up and boxed. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

This whole conversation just ended when you said that Bradley IS NOT "ON PAR WITH WARD IN TERMS OF SKILL..." This pretty much kills the premise put forth by the thread starter that Ward is pretty much the same as Bradley.

The only coherent similarity that you brought up was the headbutt tactic. Even at that, this notion that Ward's success is highly dependent on headbutting is asinine. It's simply a POOR excuse on behalf of his detractors to take away from his wins.

[boliodogs]

I think Bradley is a very good fighter but not as good as you say. I think Pacquiao beat him by a country mile and showed that his is not that hard to hit and can be made to back up and sometimes even run. Ward is somewhat better than Bradley but neither of them are hard punchers. Ward is much harder to hit and a better boxer than Bradley. He dominates 168 and Bradley does not really dominate 140 or 147.

[-Kev-]

You forgot Miguel Vazquez and Luis Abregu for Bradley's resume and Sakio Bika, Edison Miranda, and Allan Green for Ward.

But no, I don't think they are comparable. Keep in mind, Andre Ward is already The Ring champion of his division. When Bradley had the chance to do this against Amir Khan, whether it was promotional troubles or not, he didn't seize the moment to become THE Champion at 140. Bradley's resume really doesn't lack much at all, but an 2011-early 2012 Amir Khan win would have done wonders for him and his career. Instead he chose to fight Casamayor who does absolutely nothing for him at this point, followed by the controversial win over Pacquiao. That is two fights, and two steps backwards, aside from more zeroes in his bank account.

Andre Ward is way ahead at this point, he is seen as unbeatable at 168-175. Bradley is pretty beatable by guys like Mayweather, maybe Pacquiao, I could see Guerrero put a good fight. The point is with Ward, there's nobody you can think of that you can say "Oh, he'd beat him, or he has a good chance", if you're being realistic, there's nobody. But with Bradley there are several guys who could beat him. Bradley is a very good fighter though, but not on Ward's level. Ward is top 3 P4P, in sentences with Mayweather and Marquez. While Bradley is in the lower side of top 10 P4P list.

[revs1227]

bradley is very underated on here
hes def 5-10 p4p

wards #1 though

[Spiegelo]

You're committing a blatant Strawman fallacy. I never said that he primarily employed a pressure style against Pacquiao. He tried to box from the outside, but failed miserably because THAT'S JUST NOT HIS STYLE. Hopefully, you're not one of those people that believes Bradley genuinely won that fight.

Sure, there are certain nuances in different types of pressure. However, pressure is still pressure. To try to categorize Bradley as this technician who can box and slip punches is ridiculous. He was the aggressor moving FORWARD in the Witter bout. Again, this was substantiated by even the commentating.

As for the Campbell fight, you're completely flip-flopping. First, you state that he pressured forward against him. Now, you state that he backed up and boxed. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

This whole conversation just ended when you said that Bradley IS NOT "ON PAR WITH WARD IN TERMS OF SKILL..." This pretty much kills the premise put forth by the thread starter that Ward is pretty much the same as Bradley.

The only coherent similarity that you brought up was the headbutt tactic. Even at that, this notion that Ward's success is highly dependent on headbutting is asinine. It's simply a POOR excuse on behalf of his detractors to take away from his wins.

Lol oh I guess I'm being asinine. That's a good word you keep using there.

Anyway you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Ward fan than myself. I never claimed he was highly dependent on headbutts. I simply acknowledge that it's something he's very good at. He's a student of the game. He's got all kinds of tricks. If he's in a corner and his opponent is about to tee off, and he can time him with a right hand and come in with his head down, that's smart fighting. Move or get hit with a headbutt, but my eye's not getting cut either way. That's just one aspect of Ward's well rounded game, and Bradley certainly leads with his head too. He also sometimes does a little shoulder tackle when he misses body hooks, and Bradley does that too. That stuff is great, always touching your opponent, frustrating him, then smothering him so he can't do anything about it. The difference is Ward can then take a step back and land a clean uppercut.


I said in the first page that Ward is better. I didn't think that was even up for discussion. I even made the comparison of RJJ to Vinnie Paz just to illustrate I was only speaking to the similarities in their styles, not skill level. I also never said that Bradley pressured Campbell, I said he fought a bigger man's fight, meaning he wasn't carefully pecking with his jab, and at no point was he shoe shining. He was throwing hard punches and combinations, even at his arms/shoulders. He also did this backing up and avoided inside fighting until the cut. The fight doesn't go a full 3 rounds, so don't take my word for it.

And really? That's the only reason Tim didn't do well against Pacquiao? Maybe partof the reason is due to him not being in his proper weight class. Only seen him fight at 147 one other time against Abregu, and he looked like crap. Maybe another part of the reason he "failed miserably" was because he was fighting Manny Pacquiao. I mean did Cotto "fail miserably" because he was fighting a new style? Were Margarito, Clottey, Hatton, Oscar, Diaz, and Barrera all fighting new styles that they weren't comfortable with as well? Maybe in comparison, Tim didn't do THAT bad in a fight that I thought he wouldn't see the 6th round of.

[bojangles1987]

You're committing a blatant Strawman fallacy. I never said that he primarily employed a pressure style against Pacquiao. He tried to box from the outside, but failed miserably because THAT'S JUST NOT HIS STYLE. Hopefully, you're not one of those people that believes Bradley genuinely won that fight.

Sure, there are certain nuances in different types of pressure. However, pressure is still pressure. To try to categorize Bradley as this technician who can box and slip punches is ridiculous. He was the aggressor moving FORWARD in the Witter bout. Again, this was substantiated by even the commentating.

As for the Campbell fight, you're completely flip-flopping. First, you state that he pressured forward against him. Now, you state that he backed up and boxed. Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.

This whole conversation just ended when you said that Bradley IS NOT "ON PAR WITH WARD IN TERMS OF SKILL..." This pretty much kills the premise put forth by the thread starter that Ward is pretty much the same as Bradley.

The only coherent similarity that you brought up was the headbutt tactic. Even at that, this notion that Ward's success is highly dependent on headbutting is asinine. It's simply a POOR excuse on behalf of his detractors to take away from his wins.

Thing is, I don't think anyone is debating with you about Bradley being as good as Ward, he's not. But he's a well rounded fighter, and I thought that showed obviously in his fights. He can pressure, he can box and slip punches, he can fight inside and out. He's done all of this throughout his career. Even in the Pacquiao fight, which he did lose clearly, I'm not arguing that at all, he lasted 12 because he was able to slip and dodge when he got hurt and use skills very few give him credit as having. He was expected to get knocked out early by most of this site, and he actually came on stronger at the end of the fight than Pacquiao was. He's a pretty good fighter with an underrated skill set.

[BTTAG145]

No Ward appears more talented bad comparison a little disrespectful if you as me.

[S. Saddler 1310]

they're two of the most well-rounded fighters in the sport, next to Mayweather.

[p4p-champ]

Ward is practically at Mayweathers level, to put Bradley's name in there is a joke. Bradley is a nice little fighter but these two guys are on entirely different levels.