Comments Thread For: Hatton: Martinez Can Beat Mayweather, But Not Murray

[mathed]

The criticism Martinez gets for his opponents are fair tbh.

Macklin, Barker & Murray is a poor run of opponents for the man at middleweight. I can't really think of anyone in the top p4p who's faced worse competition than that and I think that coupled with the fact he exploded onto the scene means people want to see him fight the best at 160.

I wouldn't go as far to say they're bums, just not credible for someone in Martinez's position. Ward's hype is because of how strong the 168lb division is, 160 is quite weak tbh.

He's 37, looks to be slowing down and he's wasting his time against these British fighters. He should be securing his legacy...

To each his own, Allan Green, Sakio Bika and Shelby Pudwill aren't remotely close to being "the best in the division" yet they get thrown into that category because Ward fought them. Talent isn't defined by notoriety or popularity it's defined by wins and losses, title defenses and adversity.

I don't see any of his recent opposition as "soft touches" personally. These guys aren't known in the states but neither was Calzaghe at one point and I would say he was world class talent.

[D-MiZe]

To each his own, Allan Green, Sakio Bika and Shelby Pudwill aren't remotely close to being "the best in the division" yet they get thrown into that category because Ward fought them. Talent isn't defined by notoriety or popularity it's defined by wins and losses, title defenses and adversity.

I don't see any of his recent opposition as "soft touches" personally. These guys aren't known in the states but neither was Calzaghe at one point and I would say he was world class talent.

Ward has cemented his place at the top of a very competitive division, possibly the best in boxing at the moment. Big wins over Kessler & Froch. Martinez hasn't really cemented his position like Ward has.

I know who these guys are and I can tell you that comparing them to Calzaghe is absolutely absurd. These guys will be fortunate to peak as contenders. If Macklin & Barker retired now and Murray after his fight with Martinez, they'd look terrible on his resume.

A lot of Martinez's resume is relying on what they will do rather than what they have done. I don't pay any attention to those fighters you listed nor to Ward's win over Dawson.

[RapidFire26]

Ward has cemented his place at the top of a very competitive division, possibly the best in boxing at the moment. Big wins over Kessler & Froch. Martinez hasn't really cemented his position like Ward has.

I know who these guys are and I can tell you that comparing them to Calzaghe is absolutely absurd. These guys will be fortunate to peak as contenders. If Macklin & Barker retired now and Murray after his fight with Martinez, they'd look terrible on his resume.

A lot of Martinez's resume is relying on what they will do rather than what they have done. I don't pay any attention to those fighters you listed nor to Ward's win over Dawson.

Ward is my P4P #1, so I agree, but it isn't as if there is a wealth of proven guys at 154-160 who Sergio would have been able to fight over the last few years. I suppose you could argue he should move up, but at his age I don't know if that is the best idea and I do believe Ward is better than him anyway (Martinez' team thinks he would lose at 164 or 168). Ward also isn't sure he could make 164 and still perform at a high level since he is moving up to LHW soon anyway. Froch has briefly talked about coming down to fight Sergio in the past, but has always been more focused on Kessler and Ward as far as I can tell.

I also suppose you could say that Murray, Barker, and Macklin have limited ceilings as opposed to someone like Golovkin and I don't necessarily disagree, but I do still think Macklin and Murray are credible opposition. Barker was a stretch at the time, but at least the other two were/are ranked in the top 10 of the division. Murray may be a bit more marginal, but he is in the mix at least. I know Chavez has limited skills, but the way Sergio dominated him for 11 rounds was pretty good considering the size and age difference. He had also been showing improvement in his fights and was at least ranked in the top 5 of the MW division by almost everyone (many had him #2).

Even someone like Golovkin isn't necessarily a legacy fight either if we use the criteria of impending retirement that you used for Macklin and Murray. I think it would be a better win for sure, but it wouldn't be seen as a great one at all if GGG retired shortly afterwards. We also have to consider that Martinez is Dibella's best fighter and that Martinez is very loyal to him since he has been with him for a while now.

As such it makes sense if Dibella is very careful with Sergio since he is his most marketable fighter. I wish he was fighting someone more exciting than Murray, but I don't think they want to pit Sergio against someone in the top 5 and risk losing during his homecoming. I don't like it, but I can understand it.

I can also understand why Sergio would fight Chavez in September again since he is the only big money fight available (that he would take since he won't move up) to him unless Canelo or Floyd offer him a fight. I wish Austin Trout was more popular because that could be an interesting match-up. That would have been cool in Argentina actually as Trout seems willing to travel, although I don't know if he would want his first MW fight to be in that kind of environment against the undisputed champion of the division. He also is pretty big for the JMW division, but has never tested the waters higher as of yet.

Sergio is turning 38 soon and is just now becoming popular, so I can understand why he will probably only be looking for the big money fights after Murray. He does not have that much more time in that regard.

[Bullrider]

Seems the Mayweather/Martinez matchup is gathering storm. Floyd might take this fight for his retirement fight maybe last half of 2013. There's nobody there for Floyd except Sergio.

[Tmann400]

To each his own, Allan Green, Sakio Bika and Shelby Pudwill aren't remotely close to being "the best in the division" yet they get thrown into that category because Ward fought them. Talent isn't defined by notoriety or popularity it's defined by wins and losses, title defenses and adversity.

I don't see any of his recent opposition as "soft touches" personally. These guys aren't known in the states but neither was Calzaghe at one point and I would say he was world class talent.

I like how you list the weakest links on Ward's resume in his last few fights, what about Kessler, Froch Abraham and Dawson? Hell, even if you exclude Dawson because you ludicrously feel he was "drained" Kessler and Froch alone are top notch wins. You seem to focused on how many wins and losses a fighter has, yet that means NOTHING unless those wins and losses have come against credible opposition, which isn't the case with Barker, Murray and Macklin. Murray and Macklin both fought a past prime Sturm and did decently against him, but that's it. Barker was undefeated against complete tomato cans.

Are you seriously sitting here telling me that Barker, Macklin and Murray even remotely compare to Froch and Kessler? Hell even Bika is more proven against elite opposition given the fact he was competitive against Calzaghe and Bute, and if you were to ask anyone with any sense they'd tell you Bika is one of the most underrated fighters in the SMW division. Green, I completely admit is a B level fighter. But, a lot of people thought that was a competitive fight at the time. So, long story short, at this particular stage given Ward's age and small amount of fights, his resume at the VERY least is right on par with Martinez', if not superior. And, I like Martinez. Thought he was jobbed in the first Williams fight.

Me and you usually agree a lot on most fighters, we both are fans of Guerrero, but for some reason you seem to hate Ward, and your hate has seemed to reach insanely high levels of late. Why? Because he's receiving much deserved credit, just like Martinez does? Ward's earned the credit he's received the hard way, he went through a beast of a tournament that had over 90 percent of THE very best fighters in the division, as a green inexperienced prospect, and came out on top and won close to 90 percent of rounds in all his fights in the tournament.

Then, takes on Dawson who called him out in his own division, Dawson and his team talked a bunch of ****, said they were on weight with NO issues, and got absolutely embarrassed, dominated and stopped. Then cried "weight drain". Ward has less then half the amount of fights Martinez has, and has done atleast just as much as he has, and arguably more. I'm not discrediting Martinez whatsoever, but don't sit here and tell me Ward hasn't done enogu or hasn't done as much, that's absolutely ludicrous. Just sayin', I don't see why you constantly feel the need to discredit Ward and exaggerate by saying people claim he's the next SRR. No, they don't, they treat him like a fighter who is young, was inexperienced, and dominated elite experienced fighters back to back.

[J The UnBiased]

you wont see Floyd anyone that is a threat. Floyd done said so him self. It is not gonna happen. He will duck all threats i dont care what weight class it is!

"And of course, I'm probably not looking to fight six strong champions. I'm a lot older now, you know what I'm saying?" Floyd Mayweather!

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=542020

Yet he's fighting Guerrero and then Canelo...............2 young strong champions...............

[J The UnBiased]

Great fight, I've wanted to see this one for a while. Very possible Sergio stops Floyd, also very realistic that Floyd out boxes Sergio. A lot of questions will be answered, but It's a winnable fight for both men. Can Floyd take Sergio's punching Power? Can Sergio handle being in the ring with someone faster than him for the 1st time? Is Sergio's hands down defense gonna serve him well this fight? Is Sergio as good an inside fighter as Floyd can be? Those are the questions that will be answered. It's the most competitive fight that can be made, and it's a legacy battle for both guys win or lose. I gotta go with Floyd on this one, due to the fact that he's smarter, faster, sharper, and more adjustable than Martinez is. But I would not be surprised if Sergio's fully established 160lb frame is just too much for Floyd to handle. I wanna see it happen, and I'm a Floyd fan. The only reason I can see any other Floyd fans against this showdown is that their afraid of the possibility of Floyd losing, it's a winnable fight, make it happen.

[J The UnBiased]

and stop saying contact Al Haymon for a fight. Sergio has done everything to try and get a fight with floyd you guys need to do your research. even said he would do 80/20 split

Has he contacted Schaefer, Haymon or Ellerbe? hell, has he contacted Floyd? Or is he clamoring for a fight with Floyd through the media?....You want the fight, make the call. It looks good to call a fighter out in public, but the next step is that you actually have to pursue it.

[RapidFire26]

Yet he's fighting Guerrero and then Canelo...............2 young strong champions...............

Canelo hasn't really proven anything yet against quality opposition, but he definitely has potential and will have a big size advantage over Floyd.

[S IP U IR S xII]

Yet he's fighting Guerrero and then Canelo...............2 young strong champions...............

Funny how so many in here, twist these things into their favor. I just enjoy poking at all the mushroom tip lovers on here. If someone like Manny fights Ghost or Canelo, then its "hes fighting a bum who beat a hype job in Berto, and an easy willing target with no defense whos protected by GBP, in Canelo". If Floyd fights them...."He's fighting a young hungry strong lion who is on the rise, and has tons of desire". You Manny, and Floyd mushroom tip huggers are too funny.

I'll save you the trouble of responding as i will respond for you. "(X) fighter WOULD NEVER fight someone like that, only Floyd would". Only thing ******er is the morons who think that Floyd "ruins" every fighter.