Originally posted by Nekronicle
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Is there such thing as a Lucky Punch?
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You are asking if there is a lucky punch in boxing!?!?!?!?
It is what boxers DO! They train to hit something. Luck can only be considered if the circumstances involved is not governed or influenced by any means. Winning the lottery is luck, hitting somebody's jaw/chin is not because that's what you aim for in the first place and you do it by whatever means possible (training,feint,ruse,bait,etc.). Even if they were fighting with blindfolds luck would not a part in it because they stay within a confined space and, given time, will eventually hit each other (statistics can explain this better).
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Originally posted by KingKhan1 View PostFirstly, even manny and Freddie have said it was a great punch. Marquez sacrificed a lot of speed last night to gain that one punch power. In the previous fights manny always landed more, but marquez was more competitive stat wise. He found out in round 3 that he could hurt manny and kept trying to set him up. This is why in the three rounds after first knockdown he got hit flush over and over by manny. Damn marquez was zeroing in with that right hand, and manny took no notice! Any boxer that gets ko'd like manny did has a part to play in it, but marquez trained to have that kind of power, and his strategy was to make manny pay more heavily for his mistakes. Marquez body work was genius and manny became over zealous after breaking marquez nose. He should have known a broken nose can't stop marquez, damn three knockdowns in a round couldn't halt this fella. I seriously think PAC fans need to accept that marqez is the superior man, end of.
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Originally posted by Marvellous1 View PostI'll bite on this thread. The one thing the starter failed to mention in favour of focusing on how he thought the fight was panning out, is that Marquez took advantage of something Pacquiao does over and over again. That's punch while stepping in simultaneously. He also repeatedly lunges. I saw an analysis on Pacman and his supposed improvement. He does this three punch "right-left-right" combo while running forwards. He did it to Cotto and landed but had tried it on Marquez in '08 and didn't but nearly got knocked down. Marquez didn't need to set anything up. He created the perfect distance with a little shuffle back, waited Manny's habitual lunge starting with right (where he also drops his left before firing everyday time), then instead stepping back or the side, he stepped forward and delivered the overland right. Nothing lucky about.
If you're going to talk about circumstance, then you might as well bring up the fact they both made it to the ring at the same time as there was no guarantee for that either. The fact is, Marquez knows Pacquiao better than any opponent and knows his habits. He knows Pac responds to feints which is hobble dropped him the first time. He knows Pacquiao lunges and dropped him again. It was experience, study and the uncanny timing amd ability to take advantage of an opportunity as only a great boxer can. The fact that Pac stumbled is unfortunate for him as it might have changed the effect of the punch. But nothing about the delivery(as it happened AFTER Pacquiao makes his move) can be associated with luck.
Are there lucky punches? For me a punch can only be described as lucky if it's thrown without any remote idea of where your opponent is, ie. in the dark. Those seeking solace about this fight should do it elsewhere.
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Originally posted by Nekronicle View PostIgnoring the fact that this is not Pacman, and ignoring everything else that surrounded that KO (trip forcing the guard to be dropped, JMM getting outboxed, JMM throwing that same punch at the 10 second mark as if it was in fact a hail mary), the Overhand right is textbook agaisnt a southpaw....JMM did what any boxer should do against a southpaw...replace JMM with any fighter who knows basics, and that punch would have got thrown.
1. It wasn't an overhand right it was a short straight right hand
2. All you gotta do is press play and you'll see JMM practicing that same counter he landed on Pac. Same timing, angle, same everything.
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Originally posted by Marvellous1 View PostAnd there we have it. The veil has been dropped. With a little goading, the pseudo-sensible opinion has descended into cries of "PEDs!". It's obvious you don't want convincing otherwise because your mind is made up. You can't accept that Pac was knocked out cold and there just HAS to be some other explanation. Right? It was lucky! It was PEDs! IT JUST SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED!!! Well you've made yourself pretty clear. But in most people's opinion, Marquez deserves full credit for hanging tough, preparing well and taking advantage of Pacquiao's bad habits (yes, he drops his hands when throwing punches. Trip or no trip!)... oh and laying Pacquiao out like a cheap rug.
Originally posted by kalandagan View PostYou are asking if there is a lucky punch in boxing!?!?!?!?
It is what boxers DO! They train to hit something. Luck can only be considered if the circumstances involved is not governed or influenced by any means. Winning the lottery is luck, hitting somebody's jaw/chin is not because that's what you aim for in the first place and you do it by whatever means possible (training,feint,ruse,bait,etc.). Even if they were fighting with blindfolds luck would not a part in it because they stay within a confined space and, given time, will eventually hit each other (statistics can explain this better).
I measured JMMs probability of actually landing that punch as high enough odds to consider it luck, based on his performance throughout the fight, and the fact he GAMBLED ON THE EXACT SAME PUNCH AT THE 10 SECOND MARK, AND FAILED.
Thats like arguing that putting $10.00 on 32 on a roulette wheel..if it hits is Luck vs Probability
Originally posted by Light_Speed View PostGoddamn you're beyond stupid.
1. It wasn't an overhand right it was a short straight right hand
2. All you gotta do is press play and you'll see JMM practicing that same counter he landed on Pac. Same timing, angle, same everything.Originally posted by Sage84 View PostNo. If you throw a punch then you intend to hit someone with it, if you hit them then you did what you intended.
It would be lucky if you tripped over your shoe lace and KOed someone by falling into them.
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