Is there such thing as a Lucky Punch?

[mannyman]

I was gonna just accept your reasoning, but the fact you appear to be incapable of accepting anyone elses opinion, ill form a rebuttal!

What did Marquez counter in that final second? Becuase what I saw was Pacquiao rushing forward feinting with his right, realizing JMM was not taking the bait, he bailed, and before he was able to keep his left hand next to his chin his foot locked agaisnt JMM's, causing Pac's head to literally freefall into JMM's fist, resulting in a KO. The first KD, was masterful skill, which i mentioned in my original post... the KO however was not. And a fighter can practice the punch all he wants, even Nach was suprised and did not think JMM could KO Pac..and like ive said a few times in this thread, JMM attempted the overhand right at teh 10 second mark, while he was ridiculously far from Pacman, almost falling, how are you going to explain that, then reason the KO happened because of ring intelligence....

And the end of the day MP rushed in to Marquez and Marquez capitalised with a counter punch. Obviously Pac falling/tripping onto the punch increased the power.

He was attempting the right hand because he knew he could land it and he landed it twice.

[i_am_a_champ]

I was gonna just accept your reasoning, but the fact you appear to be incapable of accepting anyone elses opinion, ill form a rebuttal!

What did Marquez counter in that final second? Becuase what I saw was Pacquiao rushing forward feinting with his right, realizing JMM was not taking the bait, he bailed, and before he was able to keep his left hand next to his chin his foot locked agaisnt JMM's, causing Pac's head to literally freefall into JMM's fist, resulting in a KO. The first KD, was masterful skill, which i mentioned in my original post... the KO however was not. And a fighter can practice the punch all he wants, even Nach was suprised and did not think JMM could KO Pac..and like ive said a few times in this thread, JMM attempted the overhand right at teh 10 second mark, while he was ridiculously far from Pacman, almost falling, how are you going to explain that, then reason the KO happened because of ring intelligence....

In essence you are trying to argue that JMM is crap and that the KO was lucky.

If you were a boxing deity your ideas and commentry would be enlightening.
But you are NOT

Instead you come across as a crazy muthaf___. Who on earth takes their reasoning seriously?!

Only an imbecile would try to divert attention and focus on superstitious things as "luck and fairies" from the fact that Manny was knocked out

You come across as a JMM hater or someone who has been playing Fight Night alot and brings up all boxing knowledge from there. Which one is it dude?

[Nekronicle]

Your explanation of luck is summed up as an opportunity that presented it self... as stated here by you




What has that got to do with a punch being lucky?

Your interpretation of the events that occured are confusing. If Manny came in reckless and JMM took advantage , isnt that a display of superior boxing skill? Where is the luck in it?


Also if you look at the way manny came in , it was like this:

Feint, jab , move forward.

1) JMM did not react to the feint ( cos he fell for it the previous round )
2) JMM knew a jab was comming so he timed the jab and slipped to the side
3) At the same time he lunged his body weight forward and threw the over hand right with excellent precision and good leverage ( which was met head on with mannys forward momentum. Something JMM would have most likely known. He wud have known it wud end up as a huge hit )

I agree, with those sequence of events... The luck, was the combination of specific events that lead to that KO... JMM would have not Knocked out pacman, if

1.)he didnt rush in with a jab/feint and drop his guard completely when he realized JMM did not take the bite. [however, after additional review of the video, i think PAC dropped his left because he was about to fall on the canvas anyways because he had tripped over JMMs foot..which is luck all on its own]
2.) The fact JMM was able to throw that overhand right is only indicative of his basic knowledge, since that punch against an southpaw is textbook..any boxer who knows the basics, and is able to see a southpaw rushing in with a jab, knows to turn that hand over as hard and as fast as possible...
3.) Taking the rest of the fight into account, Marquez was looking pretty damn pathetic, his accuracy was terrible in comparison to pacquiao..He also attempted that same overhand right, at the 10 second mark, when he was ridiculously far from Pacquiao..why on earth would he do that?? That seems like a ridiculously ****** move... My guess, is that he was in fact guessing, and ******** on Pacman coming forward and it would land (key word here..********)...he made the same gamble 10 seconds later, and it paid off.
4.) 1 - 3 combined = luck IMO

[/quote]

You are trying to dismiss subtleties of JMMs skill by saying any old dude who puts gloves on could have done the same.

The punch JMM threw was not lucky. There was no luck involved. You are attempting to downsize JMMs boxing skill by saying that Manny presented him with an opportunity and JMM got lucky. That is the basis of your argument.

It has nothing to do with lucky punches.

Had manny not come in the way he did maybe he would not have been knocked out? maybe.

That still doesnt take away the fact the JMM had to position him self, time the feints, time the jab, move his feet in perfect co ordination, remain in balance and at the same time throw a perfect over hand right with his whole weight behind it, hit accurately and proceed. If u notice, JMM threw a left hook straight after he threw the over hand right. He was ready to unload.

It took him some skill. Where was the luck?

Luck that Manny came in the way he did? You havent read my post if u still believe this.


Deal with it dude Manny as great as he is got knocked out by a skillfull counter attack. Plain and simple brother
[/SIZE]

I'd agree with you on this part, if Marquez wasnt getting outboxed for 4 rounds prior to round 6, and outboxed 2 minutes and 58 seconds of round 6. People seem to ignore the rest of the fight, JMM is old, and slow..he has more power somehow, and thats it..JMM's reflexes are prety bad as well, considering Pacquaio was out countering a master counter puncher.... all this i take into account, which is how i end up saying it was lucky.

[Nekronicle]

In essence you are trying to argue that JMM is crap and that the KO was lucky.

If you were a boxing deity your ideas and commentry would be enlightening.
But you are NOT

Instead you come across as a crazy muthaf___. Who on earth takes their reasoning seriously?!

Only an imbecile would try to divert attention and focus on superstitious things as "luck and fairies" from the fact that Manny was knocked out

You come across as a JMM hater or someone who has been playing Fight Night alot and brings up all boxing knowledge from there. Which one is it dude?

haha, how do you explain rounds 1, 2, 4, 5, and 2 minutes and 58 seconds of 6?? Marquez was looking pathetic this fight...he is old, and he is slow and not the same fighter he used to be...He has Power, which is likely the result of PED's... He got lucky that Pacquaio made a mistake, he got lucky that Pacquaio tripped over his foot and his head was in free fall, creating the perfect circumstnace for a KO...forcing Pac to drop his left in preparation for hitting the canvas after a trip, and having his head in free fall not allowing for a braced shot, knocked his brain around causing a KO... You're going to call that masterful skill? where was that skill previously?? I saw it once, where Marquez at least set up Pac for that right which put him on the cavnvas the first time

[atomicsad]

Of course there is. At any time in boxing a fighter can be hit by one and it's lights out.

[mannyman]

haha, how do you explain rounds 1, 2, 4, 5, and 2 minutes and 58 seconds of 6?? Marquez was looking pathetic this fight...he is old, and he is slow and not the same fighter he used to be...He has Power, which is likely the result of PED's... He got lucky that Pacquaio made a mistake, he got lucky that Pacquaio tripped over his foot and his head was in free fall, creating the perfect circumstnace for a KO...forcing Pac to drop his left in preparation for hitting the canvas after a trip, and having his head in free fall not allowing for a braced shot, knocked his brain around causing a KO... You're going to call that masterful skill? where was that skill previously?? I saw it once, where Marquez at least set up Pac for that right which put him on the cavnvas the first time

Manny tripped/fell but Marquez still had to adjust enough to hit him with that great counter shot. If a fighter rushes in carelessly behind a weak jab he's likely to get countered, this is exactly what happened to Pac.

[Nekronicle]

And the end of the day MP rushed in to Marquez and Marquez capitalised with a counter punch. Obviously Pac falling/tripping onto the punch increased the power.

He was attempting the right hand because he knew he could land it and he landed it twice.

Marquez was lucky in the fact that Pacman did try to feint his way in, continued to rush forward drooping his left...which now i believe is becuase he had just tripped (opposed to believing he just gave up on following through, since Marquez didnt buy into the feint), and went face first into his fist. Based on the fact that JMM threw that exact same punch 10 seconds before, even though Pac was a mile away, tells me that he was making a gamble with that punch, that Pac would rush in, and was banking on it landing...why else would he throw that ******ed punch, becuase Pac didnt feint coming in, JMM didnt throw anything before that, it was a lead right that would only land if Marquez got lucky and pacquiao decided to rush forward at that moment... 10 seconds later, JMM made the same gamble and got lucky.

[Nekronicle]

Manny tripped/fell but Marquez still had to adjust enough to hit him with that great counter shot. If a fighter rushes in carelessly behind a weak jab he's likely to get countered, this is exactly what happened to Pac.

i agree, that is what happened. Pacquaio did carelessly rush in, he also happened to trip which allowed his head to become in freefall, in turn preventing Pac the ability to brace his neck/jaw so when he fell onto the fist, his brain shook around FAR more than it would have if it was braced...lights out. I dont know in what world one could plan for or set up that sequence of events..especially since it was pretty clear to me at least that Marquez was ********, and ill point to the 10 second mark where he made a gamble with that exact same punch.

[Sustanon]

theres no such thing as lucky punch...it was foot-step+punch

[fitefan]

JMM attempted that KO punch at the 10 second mark when he was like a mile away, if he was as intelligent and masterful as you are saying, why did he do that?? He attempted the EXACT same punch 10 seconds later, as Pacquiao was rushing in and he walked right into his face. JMM has never done anything like that before...hence the reason why it is lucky.

"I never thought that Juan could knock out Pacquiao. Juan is not a [power puncher]. He is a very precise fighter, and hits hard but not violently. He gets you with three shots in a row at the tip of the chin and he hurts you, but not like [what happened with the punch that hit Pacquiao]. What happened was a phenomenon," - Nacho Bernstein

are you simply trying to make yourself popular here? lol

you're focusing on the last 10 second mark as opposed to watching the whole damn fight. the reason jmm didn't look as crisp as he has in the previous fight was that he bulked up too much. so you're trying to devalue his win by indicating he was lucky is lame. not saying you are lame, but what you're trying to get people here to buy is

why aren't you taking into account the number of times pac did that same feint, leap in **** in the previous 3 fights? everyone for the most part realizes that jmm knows pac better than any other fighter. is it hard for you to realize that if a fighter tries the sames thing over and over again someone can devise a way to make them pay for being so repetitive?

what pac did in this fight(well moreso the last 2 rounds) is REVERT back to the reckless idiot who jmm beat the dog **** out of after getting dropped 3 times in one round. you get reckless you get countered. the only difference this go round was that jmm was stronger