Is JMM an ATG? If not can he attain that status?

[Kris Silver]

I think he probably is already, it's just a matter of how high obviously. Don't know why people are so very for, or very against the idea without so much as gauging the rank ATG, I mean it's a pretty long list there, he could fit in somewhere justifiably next to some others.

If the last Pac fight had been called for JMM, which it should've - then I think there'd be no doubt. Indeed, what a difference a few points makes. He's been truly done over to have not come away with one decision from any one, of those 3 fights. Give him this 4th one if it's close.

[AztecWanker]

And I disagree, he's not in a place where he can strengthen his ATG status. He's 39 and is only looking to cash out. Unless there's a way where Lucas, Rios, Khan etc give him Pac $, I don't think he'd fight them cuz he's not "a stepping stone", his words.

[Jack Napier]

no he's not an ATG, he's just great right now
coulda faced Barrera when they were GWF, nothing ever came out of it
Naz and Warren offered him a fight when Hamed's opponent pulled out
piss drinker turned it down
Terrible wanted another big fight ASAP after losing the 3rd Barrera fight
piss drinker turned it down
after the 1st fight, Pac offered him an immediate rematch
piss drinker turned it down
nobody ducked piss drinker, he and Nacho are morons
they've been selling this crap for yrs

[MikeRo1972]

JMMs problem is that as a Mexican he will always be compared to Chavez Sr, Barrera, and Morales and that's not taking into account the Mexican greats before Chavez. He's a notch below those 3 in my opinion. Best counter puncher to come out of Mexico IMHO.

But we shouldn't hold it against him that he's Mexican because if he was British, German, Australian, or Argentinian he'd be most likely considered the ATGreatest small fighter for all those countries.

[Brother Jay]

I agree with that.

You'd also have to say that for all his resentment towards Pacquiao (in a professional, not personal, sense), it's his fights with Pacquiao that have given him real relevance.

I love Marquez, but if he hadn't fought Pacquiao how many people would even be discussing him in ATG terms?

If JMM isn't a ATG, the neither are Barrera or Morales.

Barrera had his asss handed to him twice by Junior Jones.

Morales got outboxed for 12 rounds by Zahir Raheem.

Who did either man fight that made them more suitable ATG candidates than Marquez?

Evey time Barrera stepped up against world class competition he lost. Name one world class fighter aside Morales that Barrera beat.

Morales' record is only better than Barrera's in that he holds a win over Pacquiao. And to be honest, many believe that Morales' win over Pacquiao had more to do with the lab losing Pacquiao's blood sample than Morales actually beating Manny. Manny was forced to submit a CLEAN sample with such little notice that many believe that screwed up Manny's camp.

Barrera and Morales are the Mexican versions of Gatti and Ward. Each duo made each other. They gave great fights against each other but were not elite.

Marquez' foil is clearly Pacquiao, and JMM was cheated as he's bettered Pacquiao on more than one occasion.

People are freakin' hilarious. What .. are you gonna start calling Tapia, Kelley, Ayala and Juarez justification for ATG status?

Hahahaha ... ok.

After Barrera got exposed by Jones and Morales got exposed by Raheem, both of them avoided talent that could box and not just trade. Whenever either man stepped it up against the best they always lost with the exception of Morales' win over Pacquiao.

And what hurts Barrera is the fact that he lost to Morales and then had the title REAWARDED to him without ever having had to fight for it.

That's the greatness of Barrera.

[-Kev-]

You're asking if he's one of the top 100 greatest fighters of all time when you ask if a fighter is an ATG. In order to figure this out, let's get the current list[s] of top 100 ATG's made by the most reputable boxing historians/medias and ask ourselves 1 by 1 who is Marquez better/more accomplished than. I think that's the fairest way to do it and I think JMM is definitely in the top 100 best fighters to ever lace them up.

If you go by ESPN's 2007 list, Marquez doesn't make the top 50 bbut I think he's definitely top 100. So yeah he is an ATG.

[bojangles1987]

You're asking if he's one of the top 100 greatest fighters of all time when you ask if a fighter is an ATG. In order to figure this out, let's get the current list[s] of top 100 ATG's made by the most reputable boxing historians/medias and ask ourselves 1 by 1 who is Marquez better/more accomplished than. I think that's the fairest way to do it and I think JMM is definitely in the top 100 best fighters to ever lace them up.

If you go by ESPN's 2007 list, Marquez doesn't make the top 50 bbut I think he's definitely top 100. So yeah he is an ATG.

That's going to have to expand at some point. You can't keep bumping guys and saying they aren't ATGs anymore because someone else surpasses them and they aren't top 100 anymore.

[elgranluchadore]

I agree with that.

You'd also have to say that for all his resentment towards Pacquiao (in a professional, not personal, sense), it's his fights with Pacquiao that have given him real relevance.

I love Marquez, but if he hadn't fought Pacquiao how many people would even be discussing him in ATG terms?

its not that simple. if u take the three biggest fights away from someones career of course their resume is not gonna look as impressive

[Jack Napier]

its not that simple. if u take the three biggest fights away from someones career of course their resume is not gonna look as impressive

that's the point, his 3 biggest "wins" are losses
he has more notoriety from those losses than any actual wins
kinda like Vit with Lewis and Byrd

[elgranluchadore]

that's the point, his 3 biggest "wins" are losses
he has more notoriety from those losses than any actual wins
kinda like Vit with Lewis and Byrd

well people dont think about them like that or else we wouldnt be getting a 4th fight.
Wins and losses arent everything. JMM won more on his last bout vs pacquiao than bradley in his so called victory