Who's greater? Froch or Calzaghe?

[IronDanHamza]

If you can name opponent who Froch beat when they were thought to be elite, I'll fall out of my chair. And if you can somehow compare them to the Hopkins Calzaghe beat, I'll let my chair fall on me afterward.

Bute was considered elite when he fought him.

Should he have been? In hindsight, it doesn't look like it. But, he was considered elite, on the verge of P4P by the vast majority of the Boxing world, and that's a fact.

Nothing he's done is as good as Calzaghe's edgeing win over Hopkins.

Then again, nothing he's done compares to Ruben Carter's demolition of Emile Griffith either.

Doesn't automatically mean he's miles ahead of him or in Carter's case, anywhere near him.

[IMDAZED]

Bute was considered elite when he fought him.

Should he have been? In hindsight, it doesn't look like it. But, he was considered elite, on the verge of P4P by the vast majority of the Boxing world, and that's a fact.

Nothing he's done is as good as Calzaghe's edgeing win over Hopkins.

Then again, nothing he's done compares to Ruben Carter's demolition of Emile Griffith either.

Doesn't automatically mean he's miles ahead of him or in Carter's case, anywhere near him.

If you want to say Bute, fine. Hey, then again so was Lacy (using that barometer). Who else was considered "elite" when Froch beat them?

[IronDanHamza]

If you want to say Bute, fine. Hey, then again so was Lacy (using that barometer). Who else was considered "elite" when Froch beat them?

I don't think Lacy was considered on the cusp of P4P like Bute was. But either way, both comparable.

To be honest, I don't consider a 44 year old Hopkins elite either.

I guess a prime Kessler was elite? Pehaps? undecided.

Then of course Calzaghe has Charles Brewer and Richie Woodhall

So that's like what? 2-1? 3-1 at best?

Not really a landslide is it?

In all honesty, if you want my personal opinion. I'd say they're 0-0 in terms of elite opposition. Perhaps 1-0.

Fact of the matter is, neither are really pulling away.

[IMDAZED]

I don't think Lacy was considered on the cusp of P4P like Bute was. But either way, both comparable.

To be honest, I don't consider a 44 year old Hopkins elite either.

I guess a prime Kessler was elite? Pehaps? undecided.

Then of course Calzaghe has Charles Brewer and Richie Woodhall

So that's like what? 2-1? 3-1 at best?

Not really a landslide is it?

In all honesty, if you want my personal opinion. I'd say they're 0-0 in terms of elite opposition. Perhaps 1-0.

Fact of the matter is, neither are really pulling away.

Yeah, Lacy definitely was--he was a top 20 fighter at the time Calzaghe fought him. And Hops was a top five p4p'er. Kess on the cusp of p4p as well.

Yeah 3-1 is a landslide.

[IronDanHamza]

Yeah, Lacy definitely was--he was a top 20 fighter at the time Calzaghe fought him. And Hops was a top five p4p'er. Kess on the cusp of p4p as well.

Yeah 3-1 is a landslide.

How is 3-1 a landslide? It's really not.

I'd say that's about right though.

Calzaghe ahead, but obviously not by much.

[mrlopez]

i voted for

Froch because he's fought prime fighters/Champs and didnt wait to fight certain fighters til they got older....

[IMDAZED]

How is 3-1 a landslide? It's really not.

I'd say that's about right though.

Calzaghe ahead, but obviously not by much.

Doesn't need to be. It's not close. And 3-1; is considered a wide margin - just ask oddsmakers. Besides how many elite opponents can you have anyway? And beat? It's a solid margin. Throw in the fact that he's probably beaten double the amount of contenders, pretenders and former champs...it's a wrap.

[New England]

If you want to say Bute, fine. Hey, then again so was Lacy (using that barometer). Who else was considered "elite" when Froch beat them?

nobody, but pascal was later the top guy at 175 on the strength of his win over dawson.



i'll also add that i dont think the losses aren't being discussed enough.

froch couldn't do a damn thing with andre ward. he lost close to kessler, who ward had just destroyed. and i also thought he was hit with the more effective punches by dirrell, but dirrell held and ran all night, and you could make the argument either way.

[IronDanHamza]

Doesn't need to be. It's not close. And 3-1; is considered a wide margin - just ask oddsmakers. Besides how many elite opponents can you have anyway? And beat? It's a solid margin. Throw in the fact that he's probably beaten double the amount of contenders, pretenders and former champs...it's a wrap.

3-1 isn't close in odds But of course, that's obviously not the same as this.

And Calzaghe certainly hasn't beaten double the amount of contenders Froch has. He's only beaten around 6 or so fighters who were ranked at all in his entire. And Froch has atleast 6 - Taylor, Abraham, Dirrell, Pascal, Bute, Johnson were all in the Top 10.

Yet another reason why they are close.

[IMDAZED]

3-1 isn't close in odds But of course, that's obviously not the same as this.

And Calzaghe certainly hasn't beaten double the amount of contenders Froch has. He's only beaten around 6 or so fighters who were ranked at all in his entire. And Froch has atleast 6 - Taylor, Abraham, Dirrell, Pascal, Bute, Johnson were all in the Top 10.

Yet another reason why they are close.

Ranked means little to me as it relates to divisions. As you said, Jermain Taylor was ranked #5. What had he done to be #5? Not a goddamn thing.