Comments Thread For: Photos: Wladimir Klitschko Beats Down Wach in Hamburg

[Simurgh]

Wlad is not in top5 by resume but he is in top3 H2H...

He can't create the fighters who will fight him, but he can completely outbox, punish and destroy ones who step in fron of him and make it look all so easy that we think all the opponents he faced are complete amateurs.

Great boxer, great sportsman and exceptional athlete.

[LacedUp]

Right. Wach was nothing but a glorified human punching bag. Is Ali top 5 for beating Tex Cobb?

Are you trying to compare Ali and Wlad? I don't even know where to start. No Ali became great after beating the odds. Against Liston, against Forman, against Frazier twice. He bested ATGs Patterson, Cooper twice, Ken Norton. Fought the best Berbick and Holmes. Wladimirs Thompson, Mormeck, Peter in the second fight, Wach.... The list goes on and on. The good HW he beat is Haye - and even in that fight he shelled it completely.

[Weltschmerz]

Im not talking about resume here, there was simply not better opposition for prime Wlad. But when it comes to size, domination, viciousness in the ring, effectiveness, skill set, athleticism, POWER, Wlad is up there with any ATG in any era. Who would beat Wlad now?

[Simurgh]

Im not talking about resume here, there was simply not better opposition for prime Wlad. But when it comes to size, domination, viciousness in the ring, effectiveness, skill set, athleticism, POWER, Wlad is up there with any ATG in any era. Who would beat Wlad now?

Only prime Ali, all the others are 50:50 or worse...

[Brassangel]

I don't believe Ali would give Wlad a lot of trouble. Reasons?

-One of Ali's biggest advantages was height and reach. He could control the distance of the fight. He would have no such advantage against Wlad. Not even close. And Wlad's jab is arguably better. Quicker? No, but it's a ramrod, it's accurate, and it hurts.

-Ali's jab could scuff up eyebrows, foreheads, and even thumb an eye occasionally (yes, he did this often). Against Klitschko, he'd be punching upwards which would not only take a lot off, but it becomes less accurate, and tires more quickly.

-Ali was difficult to hurt because most fighters were punching up towards him. He could keep his right hand by his chin when he flicked the jab out for added defense. Foreman knocked him out on his feet, but his own stamina issues prevented him from overtaking Ali. Frazier literally had to leap to get to him. Holmes beat the piss out of him, though I realize Ali was not in great condition during that contest. Wlad would crack Ali's chin in a heartbeat. Ali never took a punch from someone who was so strong, so large, and also so capable of fighting as technically sound as can Wlad. He's not a mindless swinger like Ernie Shavers, or a 6 round fighter like Foreman.

-Wlad's upright style and intelligence would present challenges. Ali was used to making guys chase him and wearing them out. He wouldn't pull that off against Wlad, who would plant himself firmly in that wide stance, dominate the reach game, and force Ali to be a bit more aggressive. This would open him up to timing attacks from Klitschko. Timing beats speed when the fighter is capable. Watch how Marquez, an inferior fighter, always manages to frustrate Pac Man. Timing beats speed.

In short, Ali isn't going to hurt him, doesn't attack the body (which is where someone like Frazier or Tyson would be able to fight the Brothers Klitschko), and wouldn't be able to rest on his head, use height and reach, or psyche Wlad out.

Does this mean I think Wladimir beats Ali? No, but he would present a challenge to virtually anyone from a previous era. A guy that big, that strong, that smart, that fit, and that technically sound is dominating because he's THAT GOOD; not because the era is weak.

His resume may not boast the HoF credentials, but he's the undisputed champ, and can only fight whoever is available. In the h2h arena - which I realize doesn't hold the same weight as resume, title reign, etc. - he's got game in any decade.

*As an aside, George Foreman is/was overrated. I'm sorry, but he's not a top 10 fighter in any capacity, outside the minds of nostalgic homers who refuse to think. He beat Frazier because physically, and stylistically, it was a perfect match up for him. He otherwise did absolutely nothing. Pounding a terrified steroid user in Norton isn't an accomplishment. His wins when he was over 40? Moorer...really? Any relevant fighter he went up against during that stretch beat him soundly. Holyfield wasn't even close, and that's when Evander was in his rather lackluster stretch of only showing up when he felt like it - much as a diva wide receiver. Tommy freaking Morrison dominated him. Wladimir would have crushed Foreman.

Sure, Mr. Foreman Grill was intimidating and could hit like a truck, but he had no stamina, no heart, and was usually only winning thanks to the puncher's chance. How many title fights did he win? How many defenses did he make? How long did he reign as champ? How did he handle defeat in his prime? I just feel like anyone who ranks him so high is doing so because they prop the era itself up a little too high.

[Weltschmerz]

I don't believe Ali would give Wlad a lot of trouble. Reasons?

-One of Ali's biggest advantages was height and reach. He could control the distance of the fight. He would have no such advantage against Wlad. Not even close. And Wlad's jab is arguably better. Quicker? No, but it's a ramrod, it's accurate, and it hurts.

-Ali's jab could scuff up eyebrows, foreheads, and even thumb an eye occasionally (yes, he did this often). Against Klitschko, he'd be punching upwards which would not only take a lot off, but it becomes less accurate, and tires more quickly.

-Ali was difficult to hurt because most fighters were punching up towards him. He could keep his right hand by his chin when he flicked the jab out for added defense. Foreman knocked him out on his feet, but his own stamina issues prevented him from overtaking Ali. Frazier literally had to leap to get to him. Holmes beat the piss out of him, though I realize Ali was not in great condition during that contest. Wlad would crack Ali's chin in a heartbeat. Ali never took a punch from someone who was so strong, so large, and also so capable of fighting as technically sound as can Wlad. He's not a mindless swinger like Ernie Shavers, or a 6 round fighter like Foreman.

-Wlad's upright style and intelligence would present challenges. Ali was used to making guys chase him and wearing them out. He wouldn't pull that off against Wlad, who would plant himself firmly in that wide stance, dominate the reach game, and force Ali to be a bit more aggressive. This would open him up to timing attacks from Klitschko. Timing beats speed when the fighter is capable. Watch how Marquez, an inferior fighter, always manages to frustrate Pac Man. Timing beats speed.

In short, Ali isn't going to hurt him, doesn't attack the body (which is where someone like Frazier or Tyson would be able to fight the Brothers Klitschko), and wouldn't be able to rest on his head, use height and reach, or psyche Wlad out.

Does this mean I think Wladimir beats Ali? No, but he would present a challenge to virtually anyone from a previous era. A guy that big, that strong, that smart, that fit, and that technically sound is dominating because he's THAT GOOD; not because the era is weak.

His resume may not boast the HoF credentials, but he's the undisputed champ, and can only fight whoever is available. In the h2h arena - which I realize doesn't hold the same weight as resume, title reign, etc. - he's got game in any decade.

*As an aside, George Foreman is/was overrated. I'm sorry, but he's not a top 10 fighter in any capacity, outside the minds of nostalgic homers who refuse to think. He beat Frazier because physically, and stylistically, it was a perfect match up for him. He otherwise did absolutely nothing. Pounding a terrified steroid user in Norton isn't an accomplishment. His wins when he was over 40? Moorer...really? Any relevant fighter he went up against during that stretch beat him soundly. Holyfield wasn't even close, and that's when Evander was in his rather lackluster stretch of only showing up when he felt like it - much as a diva wide receiver. Tommy freaking Morrison dominated him. Wladimir would have crushed Foreman.

Sure, Mr. Foreman Grill was intimidating and could hit like a truck, but he had no stamina, no heart, and was usually only winning thanks to the puncher's chance. How many title fights did he win? How many defenses did he make? How long did he reign as champ? How did he handle defeat in his prime? I just feel like anyone who ranks him so high is doing so because they prop the era itself up a little too high.

Excellent post.

[LacedUp]

I don't believe Ali would give Wlad a lot of trouble. Reasons?

-One of Ali's biggest advantages was height and reach. He could control the distance of the fight. He would have no such advantage against Wlad. Not even close. And Wlad's jab is arguably better. Quicker? No, but it's a ramrod, it's accurate, and it hurts.

-Ali's jab could scuff up eyebrows, foreheads, and even thumb an eye occasionally (yes, he did this often). Against Klitschko, he'd be punching upwards which would not only take a lot off, but it becomes less accurate, and tires more quickly.

-Ali was difficult to hurt because most fighters were punching up towards him. He could keep his right hand by his chin when he flicked the jab out for added defense. Foreman knocked him out on his feet, but his own stamina issues prevented him from overtaking Ali. Frazier literally had to leap to get to him. Holmes beat the piss out of him, though I realize Ali was not in great condition during that contest. Wlad would crack Ali's chin in a heartbeat. Ali never took a punch from someone who was so strong, so large, and also so capable of fighting as technically sound as can Wlad. He's not a mindless swinger like Ernie Shavers, or a 6 round fighter like Foreman.

-Wlad's upright style and intelligence would present challenges. Ali was used to making guys chase him and wearing them out. He wouldn't pull that off against Wlad, who would plant himself firmly in that wide stance, dominate the reach game, and force Ali to be a bit more aggressive. This would open him up to timing attacks from Klitschko. Timing beats speed when the fighter is capable. Watch how Marquez, an inferior fighter, always manages to frustrate Pac Man. Timing beats speed.

In short, Ali isn't going to hurt him, doesn't attack the body (which is where someone like Frazier or Tyson would be able to fight the Brothers Klitschko), and wouldn't be able to rest on his head, use height and reach, or psyche Wlad out.

Does this mean I think Wladimir beats Ali? No, but he would present a challenge to virtually anyone from a previous era. A guy that big, that strong, that smart, that fit, and that technically sound is dominating because he's THAT GOOD; not because the era is weak.

His resume may not boast the HoF credentials, but he's the undisputed champ, and can only fight whoever is available. In the h2h arena - which I realize doesn't hold the same weight as resume, title reign, etc. - he's got game in any decade.

*As an aside, George Foreman is/was overrated. I'm sorry, but he's not a top 10 fighter in any capacity, outside the minds of nostalgic homers who refuse to think. He beat Frazier because physically, and stylistically, it was a perfect match up for him. He otherwise did absolutely nothing. Pounding a terrified steroid user in Norton isn't an accomplishment. His wins when he was over 40? Moorer...really? Any relevant fighter he went up against during that stretch beat him soundly. Holyfield wasn't even close, and that's when Evander was in his rather lackluster stretch of only showing up when he felt like it - much as a diva wide receiver. Tommy freaking Morrison dominated him. Wladimir would have crushed Foreman.

Sure, Mr. Foreman Grill was intimidating and could hit like a truck, but he had no stamina, no heart, and was usually only winning thanks to the puncher's chance. How many title fights did he win? How many defenses did he make? How long did he reign as champ? How did he handle defeat in his prime? I just feel like anyone who ranks him so high is doing so because they prop the era itself up a little too high.

Omg dude, Wlad would get slapped all around the ring by Ali. He was way to quick, too sharp and too smart. Wlad wouldn't have gotten close. He doesn't have the killer instinct. Plus he hasn't got a chin, Ali was hit by people who hit harder than Wlad - say fraziers left hook that knocked him down. Got up from that. Ali had it all man, Wlad has the one-two and that's it. Tyson, Frazier, Holmes (especially Holmes), Lennox, foreman, Bowe (even fight), Norton - all these and more would easily whoop Wlad. He's so limited, and yes is dominant in probably the worst era ever, but he would have been another Golota in the 90's. how can you be an ATG when you haven't beaten a top 100 ATG in your life?

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Wladimir is among the top 5 greatest heavyweights of all time.

For beating a human punching bag in Wach??? hahaha No way, but I have him in my lower top 10 and wont argue with those who have him below top 10. I give Wlad a B+ in this fight. If he didn't get hurt, it would have been an A.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

I don't believe Ali would give Wlad a lot of trouble. Reasons?

-One of Ali's biggest advantages was height and reach. He could control the distance of the fight. He would have no such advantage against Wlad. Not even close. And Wlad's jab is arguably better. Quicker? No, but it's a ramrod, it's accurate, and it hurts.

-Ali's jab could scuff up eyebrows, foreheads, and even thumb an eye occasionally (yes, he did this often). Against Klitschko, he'd be punching upwards which would not only take a lot off, but it becomes less accurate, and tires more quickly.

-Ali was difficult to hurt because most fighters were punching up towards him. He could keep his right hand by his chin when he flicked the jab out for added defense. Foreman knocked him out on his feet, but his own stamina issues prevented him from overtaking Ali. Frazier literally had to leap to get to him. Holmes beat the piss out of him, though I realize Ali was not in great condition during that contest. Wlad would crack Ali's chin in a heartbeat. Ali never took a punch from someone who was so strong, so large, and also so capable of fighting as technically sound as can Wlad. He's not a mindless swinger like Ernie Shavers, or a 6 round fighter like Foreman.

-Wlad's upright style and intelligence would present challenges. Ali was used to making guys chase him and wearing them out. He wouldn't pull that off against Wlad, who would plant himself firmly in that wide stance, dominate the reach game, and force Ali to be a bit more aggressive. This would open him up to timing attacks from Klitschko. Timing beats speed when the fighter is capable. Watch how Marquez, an inferior fighter, always manages to frustrate Pac Man. Timing beats speed.

In short, Ali isn't going to hurt him, doesn't attack the body (which is where someone like Frazier or Tyson would be able to fight the Brothers Klitschko), and wouldn't be able to rest on his head, use height and reach, or psyche Wlad out.

Does this mean I think Wladimir beats Ali? No, but he would present a challenge to virtually anyone from a previous era. A guy that big, that strong, that smart, that fit, and that technically sound is dominating because he's THAT GOOD; not because the era is weak.

His resume may not boast the HoF credentials, but he's the undisputed champ, and can only fight whoever is available. In the h2h arena - which I realize doesn't hold the same weight as resume, title reign, etc. - he's got game in any decade.

*As an aside, George Foreman is/was overrated. I'm sorry, but he's not a top 10 fighter in any capacity, outside the minds of nostalgic homers who refuse to think. He beat Frazier because physically, and stylistically, it was a perfect match up for him. He otherwise did absolutely nothing. Pounding a terrified steroid user in Norton isn't an accomplishment. His wins when he was over 40? Moorer...really? Any relevant fighter he went up against during that stretch beat him soundly. Holyfield wasn't even close, and that's when Evander was in his rather lackluster stretch of only showing up when he felt like it - much as a diva wide receiver. Tommy freaking Morrison dominated him. Wladimir would have crushed Foreman.

Sure, Mr. Foreman Grill was intimidating and could hit like a truck, but he had no stamina, no heart, and was usually only winning thanks to the puncher's chance. How many title fights did he win? How many defenses did he make? How long did he reign as champ? How did he handle defeat in his prime? I just feel like anyone who ranks him so high is doing so because they prop the era itself up a little too high.

See, its guys like you that turn boxing fans against Wlad. You don't represent Wlad in the least. I'm sure even he would argue Ali was the greatest of all time. Wlads not an idiot.

[Weltschmerz]

For beating a human punching bag in Wach??? hahaha No way, but I have him in my lower top 10 and wont argue with those who have him below top 10. I give Wlad a B+ in this fight. If he didn't get hurt, it would have been an A.

No, due to the dominant nature and longevity of his superior reign as champ. For unifying all but 1 of the major belts and destroying all competition on his way to the top. For writing boxing history, together with his brother.
AND, due to the fact that he is simply THAT GOOD, and that he would give any champ in history a run for his money.