What can Pac do to counter JMM's strategy?

[BlueCollar]

Feel free to input your own opinion. Here is mine.

Pacquiao must not let Marquez step on his lead right foot, like on the 3rd fight, he does that on his offense so Pac cannot side step, in and out, lateral, etc, it limits Pac's defensive move and it prevents pac from moving his lead foot outside. But mostly so it limits Pac's defensive footwork. Pac needs to prevent Marquez from stepping on his lead foot.


Marquez likes to establish left lead foot outside so he can slip/bob to his right to avoid Pac's left, then he counters. Or steps on Pac's right lead foot when he is on offense.

I know establishing lead foot outside sometimes is not a big beal to some boxers, but for this fight imo, since it is an essential move for JMM because he slips/bobs to his left with his lead foot outside to avoid Pac's left, and also so that they move clockwise to his advantage, also so he can pivot (left), again, to avoid the left. So i think for this fight It is essential for Pac to establish his lead foot outside so his lateral move is not hindered, especially the right lateral move, also so that they are moving counter clockwise, instead of clockwise.


If my hunch is correct. If Pac does what i think or hope he will do in this fight it will be a long night for JMM, or a short night.


I might add more.

Pac can't change a thing. He is what he is and he's not going chnage at this point in his career. The only thing that could chnage is that one of them gets old in this fight.

[woopwoop]

Not respect him as much and throw more than one shot aside from the jab into a straight left. The thing is Pac knows what Marquez is going to do so its hard changing that. He already knows JMM will counter him with a combination so Pac shows him a lot of respect. At this stage of the game he should drop a little of that respect and go right at him. Pac I feel has more in the tank. It's all psychological... He knows Marquez is smarter so its clearly hard for him to initiateas boldy as with others.


Pac showed to a lesser degree the same thing with Shane and admitted to it. That the threat of being countered by someone fast made him hesitate. Jmm isnt a fast, but his timing more than makes up for it. I think Pac could win be ko if he threw a bit more cuation to the wind when he attacks and becomes a bit more defensively aware.... Instead of cowering back with his gloves up...

IMO, Manny throws jab jab straight left (or left hook) more often than normal when he fights JMM because....those are the only punches he can throw most of the time. Here's why.

Imagine this. Or try this, do a southpaw stance, then have someone stand 45 degrees to your right in an orthodox stance, then try to throw a right hook, jab, anything with your right. not only is your opponent hard to hit and your power being minimized because of your awkward position you are also very prone and easy target for a counter. It is also easier for him to dodge your limited right hand punches, even worst, he is well hidden from your left hand. That is why Pac and Jmm move clockwise because Manny is constantly trying to land his left, (jmm 30-45 degrees to his right) while jmm is constantly turning and bobbing/slipping to the left and turning manny to the right in the process because he is trying to catch JMM = clockwise
.

IMO, That is Manny's problem , i think if he can neutralize that jmm goes to sleep.

[Light_Speed]

In 3 fights against Marquez, Pacquiao has averaged 600 punches thrown Including 580 in their last fight, which is the least amount of punches he's thrown in the trilogy. This average is opposed to Pacquiao's 800 punches thrown against every other opponent, who of course do their best impression of a punching bag and are stationary targets, with little to defense[except Bradley].

The reason why Pacquiao does not fight a fast paced fight against Marquez is pretty simple; He can't. Marquez has never let him, and he won't let him now. He is not a stationary target, he moves around, he counters, makes Pacquiao pay for his "weird angled" punches.

While true this is not very constructive. What would you tell Pac if you were training him for this fight? "You can't do nothing to him"?

Marquez doesn't move that much and Pac's drop in workrate can also be explained by the evolution of his style throughout the years. He's gotten more technical and thus more careful. If he can go back to throwing as many punches as he did in the first fight that would be a big step in the right direction.

[woopwoop]

He needs to assault JMM from the get go and force his old ass to fight at a fast pace non stop.

yes, true, i agree, he needs to assault jmm non stop, however, he needs to neutralize or counter JMM's strategy (see my first post) otherwise it will look similar to the previous fights.


if he can neutralize jmm's strategy and assault him fast pace non stop. imo, jmm goes down, several times. because we all know jmm he will keep getting up and manny will keep decking him until the ref stops it.


we will see

Edit:

Rephrase : It think that it will a continuous high pressure assault but in a controlled manner i.e not being reckless.

[woopwoop]

1. Marquez is 39 years old. Pacquiao needs to just go to war with him.

This is what Katsidis did, and Marquez was on his ass. 1. Now, Katsidis did end up getting knocked out, but he's smaller, doesn't hit so hard, and has next-to-no defensive movement.

2. Pacquiao just needs to make this a high pressure fight, no more letting Marquez work at 35 shots a round - if Pacquiao can make Marquez work at 50+ shots a round, he'll be spent by the later rounds. He felt the pace in the 3rd fight, is carrying more muscle, and will simply wilt under a combination of the power, pace, and pressure Pacquiao can put on him. Something like what Pacquiao did to Bradley rounds 2-6.

If you are in a fighters face, not letting up, 3. and you also use a bit of defense to make them miss, you can really force a fighter to work way harder than he's used to. Rios Alvarado - Rios was forcing Alvarado to work at 100+ shots a round, because Rios was working pretty well defensively (occasional lapses aside) and Alvarado was forced to work at that rate to be competitive.

Pacquiao _can_ do this to Marquez, 4. because Marquez is not the hardest guy to hit if you are close to him. However, this needs the desire and will of a younger Pacquiao and politician Pacquiao simply might not fancy it.

IMO

1. Katsidis is orthodox stance, Manny cannot afford to just go to war with him without any plan or counter strategy, he knows Manny's move and he found out a strategy to hide from Manny's left hand. JMM feeds off of Manny's southpaw stance. (see first post).

2. Pacquiao really tries hard to make it as high pressure fight as possible, but you have to understand, he is also trying to time and calculate his attack, because jmm likes to counter, that is why the work rate is lower that usual.

3. regarding defense, i think establishing his position and not letting jmm establish position (see first post), his speed and fast pace offense is his best defense. Rios-Alvarado is totally different, they’re both orthodox, no southpaw stance to feed off of, Alvarado was lured into fighting a close range toe to toe battle, when he was clearly winning in long range battle. You will not be able to lure jmm into a toe to toe battle, jmm chooses when to go toe to toe (not very often with Pac because he gets confuse where his corner is when he goes toe to toe w/ Pac).

4. I agree, Jmm is not that hard to hit if you're orthodox, ask baby bull, katsidis, barrera, Floyd, all orthodox, but he found a way to hide from Manny's left manny being southpaw, but if Manny can neutralize jmm's strategy (see first post) and attack non stop fast pace, like he did in the previous figts, i think Pac can win via ref stoppage, because we all know jmm will keep getting up.





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[FlatLine]

JMM might actually have an added advantage in this fight because Pacquiao and his mom (literally) have stated that he wants to knock out Marquez. Roach wants the same. That might play right into JMM's counterpunching style even further, and, strange as it may sound, Pacquiao could even find himself in trouble if he tries to continuously pressure Marquez, he'll just end up getting hit more frequently and Marquez does have the power to hurt Pacquiao as we've seen in the past.

[Rk16]

The more they fight,the less effective Manny has become!
Manny is not a clever enough fighter to box with him,and when he tries to just throw heavy shots he gets countered
Age might help,but Manny's best chance is to try fight at a high pace but Marquez is capable of shutting that down
Can't understand anyone thinking Manny is going to stop Marquez now
It's a very hard fight for Manny but if he wins in a decisive manner,he deserves a lot of respect

[Earl-Hickey]

fight off the back-foot, force Marquez to lead by throwing only single jabs until marquez realises he needs to come forward.

[head movement]

first, he can NOT go on FACEOFF and give away his strategy...that's for starters

That's a good start,lol

[woopwoop]

fight off the back-foot, force Marquez to lead by throwing only single jabs until marquez realises he needs to come forward.

You forgot the "Right Hook, Roll Under"...