The all new, Mayweather/Pac Master Discussion Thread - The fight that will never be.

[Brother Jay]

And yeah, I'm not gona choose sides, mega fans for both guys go mad, it's not worth the hassle. I'm just upset that one of the best and most competitive fights of all time will now be made when both guys are slightly past their best



Thanks, glad to be here.

You've said a lot but I'll try to reply to what I think is your main theme, that Pac just isn't as good as people said he was/is (that's what I think you're saying, I might be wrong).

For me, Pac is, along with Hopkins, the best fighter of the last 10 years or so.
Going over the JMM/Pac trilogy I'd say Pac did miles better in their first 2 fights than he did in the 3rd fight. I might be in the minority but I had Pac winning the second fight and winning the first one too by a razor thin margin, I just don't buy into those who say JMM won the first contest.

In both those fights, Pac actually stunned JMM, multiple times, with his power, something he couldn't do even once in their third meeting. Maybe JMM is stronger at the higher weight but I think it's because Manny was simply unwilling to pull the trigger. He was visibly slower and didn't throw as often as we are accustomed to. And I don't think it's because Marquez is a boxer and Manny fought sluggers/weight drained fighters as many claim, Pac has fought this exact same boxer two times previously and been miles more aggressive, faster, harder and more dynamic both times.

Pac also showed that he was reluctant to press the attack many times against Mosley and Margarito. This wasn't because either guy posed a threat, it's just that I think Manny doesn't have the same 12 round energy levels he did years ago. He evened showed compassion to Margarito, whereas the old Manny would have pressed the action till there was a stoppage without even bothering to look at the ref.

Not only has Manny slipped physically, mentally he just doesn't want it as much as he did when he was that skinny Fillipino kid on the rise.

The best fighter of any era isn't getting outboxed by Morales when Morales was clearly passed his prime.

The best fighter of any era wouldn't knock a fighter down 3 times in one round and let him off the hook to get outboxed basically for the remainder of the fight.

The best fighter of any era wouldn't shy away from .. who am I kidding .. FLAT OUT REFUSE random blood tests unless their success was predicated on something other than their own ability.

The best fighter of any era wouldn't target 6 different WWs once and ONLY ONCE they were beaten by other fighters. The opportunity to fight them before they lost was undeniably there. Manny Pacquiao simply refused to take the chance that real champions would have taken.

The best fighter of any era doesn't use vacant titles to make a case for being a champion and the man to beat.

But instead of me retyping that sentiment, I'll simply requote it:

Pac won't be top 50. Historians are not pactards.

When they weigh what Pacquiao has done, the only value that will get him through the door will be his fights against Barrera and Morales.

JMM II - indecisive

DLH - coming off loss & weight drained

Hatton - coming off 1st loss & damaged after KO to Floyd

Cotto - coming off destruction by Margarito & drained

Clottey - coming off loss to Cotto and never been world class

Margarito - coming off KO loss and still banned at time of fight & drained

Mosley - coming off loss & looked terrible in next 2 fights

JMM - clear win for JMM despite Pacquiao having him come up to a weight he claims he could not make till this day.

Take those fights away(and a historian could not factor in those matches as legacy wins because of the conditions) and Pacquiao has to rely on the rest of his resume.

He may not break top 100.

Manny was already demoted before he fought Bradley. Manny isn't #2 any longer.

He was never #1 because he never beat anyone to become #1. Manny was never the #1 WW. Manny was never the #1 jrMW. As of November Manny wasn't the #1 anything.

We all knew this was coming. All of the talk about "has Manny aged?" was just softening the blow. The excuses were already made. The scenario was already painted out.

Before Manny and Tim stepped in the ring, the whispers had already begun .. the seeds had already been planted .. the doubts were already apparent.

This performance by Manny was not worse than his performance against JMM or Clottey. Its just that his fans are not impartial and only see Manny doing well.

Those days are over. They hype is on a billboard for everyone to see.

Regardless of how this may have been orchestrated so that a rematch resulted, this match was important as it demonstrated what some of us have been saying for years: Manny only has his jab, jab straight left hand and once he's fighting someone who can actually box AND MOVE, he's a dud.

Pacfans are right. There is no argument anymore.

Manny Pacquiao is or maybe was exciting. There's no doubt about that.

Did Pacquiao take on the best? No, he didn't. Instead he heavily relied on the name recognition of has been's. As any real fan knows, one is only as good as their last world class fight.

When one factors in that Pacquiao has competed for vacant titles, used catchweights in 2 of the most important matches of his career and never fought a top 3 WW in his life ... an honest fans assessment would have to admit that it isn't as impressive as the marketing would have casual fans believe.

[Prince_Pugilist]

Brother Jay, that's just disappointing. You have a clear anti-Pacman bias. Most of the things you say are totally false. I was expecting more from this forum, but so far all I see is either the anti-Floyd or anti-Pac rubbish I've come to expect from most people.

[Brother Jay]

Brother Jay, that's just disappointing. You have a clear anti-Pacman bias. Most of the things you say are totally false. I was expecting more from this forum, but so far all I see is either the anti-Floyd or anti-Pac rubbish I've come to expect from most people.

Care to highlight what was false?

I welcome the insight.

And I have given Pacquiao is due praise. He is one of the most exciting fighters in recent history.

That said, I'm not going exaggerate his accomplishments for anyone including you.

Here's what you won't be able to refute:

Pacquiao shamefully padded his record with 40 fights, 35 of them in Asia, before he stepped up to fight a world class fighter.

Vacant titles do not a division champion make. Pacquiao has a few of those.

Pacquiao's run above 135 is a joke .. and that's being kind. When you target six opponents in a row who were coming off of the worst losses of their career that constitutes A PATTERN, whether anyone likes it or not.

What adds to the disgrace of that pattern is the fact that many of the six fighters Pacquiao targeted sought a fight with him while they were still on top and winning. Pacquiao wanted none of that.

I don't feel bad that you're disappointed. I feel sorry that facts are interpreted as opinion when they don't suit certain people's agenda.

I'm not anti-Pacquiao. I'm anti-propaganda when it hurts the sport. Pacquiao is not among the ATG's of the sport simply because he made his mark by fighting men who weren't the best available. He puts on a hell of a show. he's exciting and he leaves it all in the ring.

That however does not increase the value of a victory when the opponent is ranked 5th. It does not help his cause when he stipulates that other boxers drain down below a weight he's been making since SFW.

Ask for the pictures because I have them and have posted them here on this site before. I'd actually love for you to ask to see the fight night breakdown of weight because then you'd see just how true the things I written are. Ask for the YouTube link to Roach refusing a fight with Mosley because he was "too good" and would only consider a fight at a mannyweight of 142lbs.

I'm not saying that Pacquiao "sucks". I am not saying that he lacks skill completely. I am not saying that he never beat anyone.

I am saying that when being honest with one's self, Pacquiao hasn't done alot since 135lbs. He hasn't made any significant strides above 135. He's cherry picked 6 losers who had big name recognition. He got a huge gift against Marquez and lost to Bradley.

Real champions face the 1, 2 and 3 ranked fighters in every division they compete in. They don't try to gain clout by seeking out vacant titles. They don't use catchweights and then act like they are taking the world by storm when they win. They don't have their promoter set up a banned cheater to compete for a vacant jrMW belt that he was NEVER in contention for.

Yeah .. I'd really like you to point out what exactly was false in my post.

[miron_lang]

I will admit that Pacquiao should be the underdog and there's a bigger chance that Floyd embarrasses him than Pac pulling it.

I still wanna see it.

[Brother Jay]

I will admit that Pacquiao should be the underdog and there's a bigger chance that Floyd embarrasses him than Pac pulling it.

I still wanna see it.

Well that's because you've always had integrity, Miron. That's rare around these parts.

[danceswithfire]

fight will never happen ..even floyd's bestfriend confirmed floyd did'nt want it...

[DeadLikeMe]

Ask for the pictures because I have them and have posted them here on this site before. I'd actually love for you to ask to see the fight night breakdown of weight because then you'd see just how true the things I written are.

Do you mean this old thing?

It really needs to revised by someone...I don't care enough to do it...

[boxingfan4life]

i give floyd the nod because the simple fact that he is a counter puncher. pac has shown that he has diffculities with these type of fighers. in three fights he has yet to win a clear decision against marquez, who is great counter puncher. how well will he do against a fighter that is younger and a far more superior boxer and counter puncher than his rival. i say pac will give floyd a little bit of trouble in the first two rounds because of his speed. floyd will adjust and pot shot him for a clear unaminous decision win.

[JOM'S]

I will admit that Pacquiao should be the underdog and there's a bigger chance that Floyd embarrasses him than Pac pulling it.

I still wanna see it.

well its a fight the floyd is the favorite like in all his fights but Pac is a real threat, I would not go to lengths that he gets embarrassed as he is the underdog ....

anyway like you i still want to see the fight and do you guys think pac linking with 50 make this fight a lot closer from happening, for me I am hoping its the case...

[JOM'S]

i give floyd the nod because the simple fact that he is a counter puncher. pac has shown that he has diffculities with these type of fighers. in three fights he has yet to win a clear decision against marquez, who is great counter puncher. how well will he do against a fighter that is younger and a far more superior boxer and counter puncher than his rival. i say pac will give floyd a little bit of trouble in the first two rounds because of his speed. floyd will adjust and pot shot him for a clear unaminous decision win.

not to mention floyd's size and length advantage this is acceptable theory, what I hate around this boards is their are more "anti" views and instead of your view which shows how floyd could win, instead put pac down and dont give him any credit...

as for me if floyd move and potshots he will win the decision pulling away but if he tries other things like going for knockout or going toe to toe or just stay in his shell at the ropes this will give pac openings to beat him...