who's higher on your ATG list? Mayweather or Hopkins

[IronDanHamza]

Castillo and Corrales are better than Jermain Taylor? LOL that's it I'm out this thread.

Absolutely.

Castillo is the best Lightweight of the last era by a wide margin and possibly has the best Lightweight reign since Pernell Whitaker.

I'd certainly vote for Castillo to be in the HOF over Jermain Taylor who of course, has absolutely no place in the HOF.

It seems people forget or weren't around to see how good Castillo was at his peak.

[Kagami Taiga]

Castillo and Corrales are better than Jermain Taylor? LOL that's it I'm out this thread.

is there an argument for how they arent? im kinda lost.

[IMDAZED]

my logic is solid. pavlik didn't lose to hopkins because of weight to think otherwise is silly. you know that. further pavlik himself said they were going to move up in weight after hopkins since 160 was becoming too difficult to make, only hopkins derailed those plans for short time period.

Just because he said he was going to move up doesn't mean he would still be good above 160. I mean...wtf? Furthermore, he simply isn't the same fighter above 160. Never has been. But that's neither here nor there. The fact is, his only good win was over Taylor. Above 160? No one.

[ИATAS]

Just because he said he was going to move up doesn't mean he would still be good above 160. I mean...wtf? Furthermore, he simply isn't the same fighter above 160. Never has been. But that's neither here nor there. The fact is, his only good win was over Taylor. Above 160? No one.

Do you honestly think Pavlik only lost to Hopkins because of weight? I didn't think so.

Did hopkins out muscle pavlik? Did he throw him around the ring and wrestle him around the canvas? or did he box the shit out of him, beating him to the punch and confused him with lateral movement and took away his 1-2 punch?

Pavlik was a very good win for Hopkins. Remember he was a pound 4 pound fighter, undefeated and a heavy favorite not only to beat hopkins but to knock him out. And of course you throw in the age of hopkins, 43 at the time, it's a fantastic win. To discredit the win over weight is simply wrong. I guess you give Jake Lamotta no credit for beating sugar ray robinson (actually that's much worse as robinson weighed in as a welterweight in a middleweight fight, I guess that win doesn't count for Jake and shouldn't be taken into consideration when raking Lamotta at middleweight).

Plus we don't know how Pavlik would have done above 160 since after hopkins ****d him he became an alcoholic. I'm sure he would have done just fine at 168 as long as he stayed away from a solid boxer like Ward or Dirrell. In his prime I can see him beating a froch, bute, johnson and the likes, or at the very least being extremely competitive.

[daggum]

No no, he's funny when it relates to Mayweather aswell. Despite how wrong he is, at times.

I think it's because it's easier to hate Calzaghe. And his hate is more deserved.

But who knows?

to me the very mention of carlos baldomir and linear champ makes me laugh but that's just me. On a side note i'm glad zsolt erdei is finally getting a fight on hbo. He's the legit reigning light heavyweight linear champ. Zsolt time baby.

[IronDanHamza]

Do you honestly think Pavlik only lost to Hopkins because of weight? I didn't think so.

Did hopkins out muscle pavlik? Did he throw him around the ring and wrestle him around the canvas? or did he box the shit out of him, beating him to the punch and confused him with lateral movement and took away his 1-2 punch?

Pavlik was a very good win for Hopkins. Remember he was a pound 4 pound fighter, undefeated and a heavy favorite not only to beat hopkins but to knock him out. And of course you throw in the age of hopkins, 43 at the time, it's a fantastic win. To discredit the win over weight is simply wrong. I guess you give Jake Lamotta no credit for beating sugar ray robinson (actually that's much worse as robinson weighed in as a welterweight in a middleweight fight, I guess that win doesn't count for Jake and shouldn't be taken into consideration when raking Lamotta at middleweight).

Plus we don't know how Pavlik would have done above 160 since after hopkins ****d him he became an alcoholic. I'm sure he would have done just fine at 168 as long as he stayed away from a solid boxer like Ward or Dirrell. In his prime I can see him beating a froch, bute, johnson and the likes, or at the very least being extremely competitive.

I wouldn't say only lost. But I think it played a part.

It's a shame he's done nothing at that weight to make the Hopkins win better.

But it's still a good win in my book.

[IMDAZED]

Do you honestly think Pavlik only lost to Hopkins because of weight? I didn't think so.

Did hopkins out muscle pavlik? Did he throw him around the ring and wrestle him around the canvas? or did he box the shit out of him, beating him to the punch and confused him with lateral movement and took away his 1-2 punch?

Pavlik was a very good win for Hopkins. Remember he was a pound 4 pound fighter, undefeated and a heavy favorite not only to beat hopkins but to knock him out. And of course you throw in the age of hopkins, 43 at the time, it's a fantastic win. To discredit the win over weight is simply wrong. I guess you give Jake Lamotta no credit for beating sugar ray robinson (actually that's much worse as robinson weighed in as a welterweight in a middleweight fight, I guess that win doesn't count for Jake and shouldn't be taken into consideration when raking Lamotta at middleweight).

Plus we don't know how Pavlik would have done above 160 since after hopkins ****d him he became an alcoholic. I'm sure he would have done just fine at 168 as long as he stayed away from a solid boxer like Ward or Dirrell. In his prime I can see him beating a froch, bute, johnson and the likes, or at the very least being extremely competitive.

Do you think Pavlik is the same fighter above 160? I didn't think so.

[Light_Speed]

is there an argument for how they arent? im kinda lost.

Aight I'll bite.

1. How would they do against Hopkins?

2. Who did they beat that was nearly as good as Hopkins?

[IronDanHamza]

Aight I'll bite.

1. How would they do against Hopkins?

2. Who did they beat that was nearly as good as Hopkins?

Styles make fights.

Castillo obviously has a much better resume than Jermain Taylor.

Or are you denying that aswell?

[Light_Speed]

Styles make fights.

Castillo obviously has a much better resume than Jermain Taylor.

Or are you denying that aswell?

You did not answer any of my questions.