It makes me laugh when an old timer......

[TuPrincipe]

Whoever created this thread is a joker.

You're debating your argument strictly on the fact that the athletes today are more athletic thus making them better fighters. WRONG!

Experience is the great teacher. The way to learn at anything is by experience. The same is true for the "sweet science" of boxing. Today, top professionals fight up to four times a year, often less.

All of the old timers fought everyone and often so they could keep up in fighting shape. How often do today’s top professionals fight, and what is the quality of their opponents?

The top fighters of today cannot match yesterday’s top fighters in terms of experience, and hence cannot match their understanding of the game.

Just look at guys like Vargas and Trinidad. These guys both stand straight up, show NO head movement, and are countered by technically proficient fighters (DLH, Winky).

johnny swift you are a joker by your own regard. Stop posting boxing for your own self-worth. You are worthless in boxing knowledge, and your posts are beginning to show so.

[Mr. Violence]

Whoever created this thread is a joker.

You're debating your argument strictly on the fact that the athletes today are more athletic thus making them better fighters. WRONG!

Experience is the great teacher. The way to learn at anything is by experience. The same is true for the "sweet science" of boxing. Today, top professionals fight up to four times a year, often less.

All of the old timers fought everyone and often so they could keep up in fighting shape. How often do today’s top professionals fight, and what is the quality of their opponents?

The top fighters of today cannot match yesterday’s top fighters in terms of experience, and hence cannot match their understanding of the game.

Just look at guys like Vargas and Trinidad. These guys both stand straight up, show NO head movement, and are countered by technically proficient fighters (DLH, Winky).

johnny swift you are a joker by your own regard. Stop posting boxing for your own self-worth. You are worthless in boxing knowledge, and your posts are beginning to show so.

I actually train in boxing...you're just an armchair warrior so you tell me who knows more. Look at old clips of boxers back then, modern athletes are way better.

[TuPrincipe]

I actually train in boxing...you're just an armchair warrior so you tell me who knows more. Look at old clips of boxers back then, modern athletes are way better.

I've looked champ.

Take a look at guys like Vargas, Mosley, and Michael Grant. These guys are physical specimens. Just because they are bigger, stronger, faster then top quality boxers does not mean they can throw straight, sharp, textbook punches like the old timers.

[Mr. Violence]

I've looked champ.

Take a look at guys like Vargas, Mosley, and Michael Grant. These guys are physical specimens. Just because they are bigger, stronger, faster then top quality boxers does not mean they can throw straight, sharp, textbook punches like the old timers.

Let me guess...you're one of those guys who thinks Marciano could have beat Lennox Lewis..ha ha ha

[TuPrincipe]

Let me guess...you're one of those guys who thinks Marciano could have beat Lennox Lewis..ha ha ha

Go back to school, pipsqueak.

[Mr. Violence]

Go back to school, pipsqueak.

answer the question ,with your argument do you believe Marciano could have defeated Lennox Lewis?

[Kid Achilles]

Of course he could have. You saw how Louis devastated men like Buddy Baer, who were naturally bigger and stronger and had a better chin than Louis. Well while keeping that in mind remember that men who fought Louis and Marciano (Joe Walcott for one) admitted that the Rock hit harder, significantly harder.

Lewis, with his chin, was vulnerable on an off night to any heavyweight puncher in history. Of COURSE Marciano, who was adept at slipping jabs and punches on the outside (which is where Lewis dominated) could get to Lewis and hurt him, even knock him out. Lewis would have a harder time of reaching Marciano in his crouch than you'd think. It was on the inside that Marciano was most vulnerable to getting knocked down, as Walcott proved. He was never seriously hurt at far range, the range where Lewis has his best chance in this fight. Yes, he definitely has a chance of beating Lewis.

So would he have? Who knows, that's open for debate. I do think less of Lewis's jab and skills than I do of Joe Walcott. Walcott was a better mover, was quicker and sharper with his punches, had better reflexes, and better stamina. Lewis is bigger and stronger, but that weight is going to hurt him in the long run when it's round ten and Marciano is still coming on strong.

You only see 245 lbs. vs. 185 lbs and discount Marciano but history has proved time and time again that smaller guys have advantages against the larger guys (for the most part, superior stamina), especially if those smaller guys can punch like hell and take it as well. Marciano hit and took a punch like few other men in the sports history, and that mixed with his experience and fighting spirit made him an extremely dangerous opponent.

Perhaps Lewis does UD him or knock him out with the extra weight and reach, but if you think it'd be a walkover with Lewis having nothing to fear from Marciano's punches you are a complete ****ing moron. The kind of shots that break the bones in an opponents arms, shear there teeth off at the gums, and put Carmine Vingo into a coma are the ones you want to avoid regardless of your size. When you have a chin like Lewis, that goes double for you.

Let me ask you a question, if Marciano landed that right hand that sent Walcott into Candy Land, on Lewis's jaw do you think he would just blink or shake it off because of the extra weight? If so I am done with this thread, and you have proven yourself unworthy of a debate based in reality.

[phallus]

As for this thread, it makes me laugh when people talk **** about old fighters of whom no film exists and so they have no way of really criticising. Greb by all historical accounts was...

1. The absolute quickest fighter in the first half of the century.
2. The closest thing to a complete package anyone at the time had ever seen. He had speed, agility, strength, accuracy, endurance, chin, had an awkward style and wastough to hit etc. All he lacked was a knockout punch but with his movement and limitless stamina he didn't need one.
3. Owner of one of the greatest records in in boxing history.

Have some respect for a man most experts regard as a top five all time P4P fighter.

as far as i know there's no film of Greb fighting, but there is of him shadowboxing - i have a clip of it. ****, man he was fast, in the clip he slips in and out of the pocket, throwing a few punches, it's ****ing hypnotizing to watch. greb really was something special, maybe the greatest middleweight of all time, and yes, johhny, he BEATS ANY OF TODAY'S BUMS who call themsleves middlweight champions