So who did Joe Calzaghe duck?

[sicko]

At 168, out of Calzaghe's 21 defenses only FIVE of these guys were top-10 super-middleweights at the time Calzaghe fought them. C'mon, it took him NINE years to fight a unification fight! He could've fought the top-10 guys in his division for a start; Frankie Liles, Sven Ottke, Antwun Echols, Anthony Mundine.

So who did he duck? Well just take a look at the fights Calzaghe was linked to:

Johnson: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3646797.stm
J. Taylor: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7140012.stm
Tarver: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3939393.stm
Beyer: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4806674.stm
Woods: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7341233.stm
Echols: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4143549.stm
Mundine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3258677.stm

The list is ENDLESS and NONE of these fights happened. They even steered clear of Winky Wright!

Calzaghe's career-defining fight was up at 175lbs, much like Hatton's was up at 147lbs. Calzaghe wanted no part of Roy Jones Jr in his prime, just listen to what he said in 2001 on the prospect of facing Jones Jr! He didn't want to 'risk it' !? In his book, he wrote Jones Jr off as a 'shot fighter' and vowed to never fight him. Guess what, he blatantly ducks Pavlik and fights Jones Jr. The worst thing is: Pavlik accepted 40%! Calzaghe left his promoter and went 50/50 with an old Roy - I bet Roy couldn't believe his luck ..... but the fight did 200,000 PPV buys which by any standards was truly appalling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzyYHSPfXZU

Why would Calzaghe avoid Hopkins? Just look at their fight in 2008. Hopkins was well past his physical prime and even at 43-years-old you could STRONGLY argue Hopkins won.

Thread Should have closed after this Post hahaha OWNED!

Joe fans been using the SAME EXCUSE(S) FOR YEARS which are mostly a bunch of LIES and made up BS so they can try to justify Joe's legacy...it is a reason why not many even mention him when they talk about All Time Greats and why many of his fans years after he retired is still trying to justify his career and trying their best to convince others that he was "GREAT"

[Fighting Pride]

Roy Jones, Joe may or may not have ducked him. Doubt Roy would have bothered with a fight against him anyway if you look at the level of Jones' opposition through those years, and he couldn't even fight his rival in his division for years, Michaelczewksi. There is a quote out there of Joe saying he would never fight Roy, there are also the post fight interviews where Joe calls Roy out.

Glen Johnson, Joe pulled out of a fight with him a few times through injury and personal problems. It's the equivalent of saying Vitali ducked Rahman. It was unfortunate it never happened, but Glen Johnson had a poor record at SMW and wouldn't have added much to Joe's resume there.

Ottke and Beyer, bit of joke, they never would have fought Joe. They never left Germany, and they couldn't even fight each other and that would've been a massive fight in Germany.

As for Hopkins, I know Calzaghe definately didn't duck Hopkins. Infact it was clearly the other way round. Hopkins refused to fight him and ended up fighting the likes of Hakkar for $200K after turning down multiple millions to fight Joe.


Proof? Here's some from various sources...

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Jay Larkin, former head of showtime..

Jay Larkin, head of boxing for the American Showtime television, said: "With Bernard you never know. I think he comes to us from outer space sometimes. But a fight against Hopkins is a natural for Wales and we would like it to take place here."

Larkin confirmed that Hopkins last year agreed to a purse of £1.9million to go in against Calzaghe, only to demand double the money the very next day.
link

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"We have to get Joe to America and the right fight is Bernard Hopkins," said Showtime boxing chief Jay Larkin.

"Hopkins turned down a lot of money from us to fight Calzaghe last year, but after what Joe did to Mitchell we can up the ante and offer more."
link

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Jay Larkin in his book about negotiations..

..."A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear."

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Hopkins himself confirming negotiations took place..

Hopkins stated: "Right now I'm negotiating along with Don King and Jay Larkin of Showtime. Who we spoke to and we're going to talk to him about two fights, maybe my mandatory too, which makes it a three-fight deal.

"It would be the mandatory, Harry Simon and Joe Calzaghe. While Calzaghe fights for that other super-middleweight title, I'll wait for that and knock off Simon after the mandatory and fight the WBO title."
link

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Roy Jones talking about the situation..

According to both King and Hopkins, the two worked out an agreement for Hopkins' next fight, no small accomplishment considering Hopkins spurned a $10.5 million three-fight Showtime offer made earlier this year that would have sent him into the ring to fight Morrade Hakkar, Joe Calzaghe and Harry Simon.

"He's desperate for a fight and he needs to fight me because he messed up his deal with Showtime," Jones Jr. said in the dressing room prior to Saturday's main event.
link

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Hopkins again..still ducking Joe in 2006 and not ashamed of it..

The original plan cooked up by Team Calzaghe was for Joe and Bernard to meet next March for a £10million showdown, according to the Sunday Mirror, but the never-at-a-loss-for-words Hopkins put a kibosh on those plans, not temporarily, but once and for all.

"Calzaghe is a good fighter but right now it would be a backward step for me," Hopkins said. "It is not a big enough fight right now and I need a big fight to get motivated. A fight against Maskaev would be exactly the type of fight I need."
link

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So there you go, Calzaghe gets a bad rap from ignorant Americans and his haters alike regarding Hopkins and it's completely unfair. We must remember Hopkins couldn't get the deal done with Roy Jones for their rematch when both were on top of the P4P lists, a fight he needed for his legacy. It's clear Hopkins didn't want either of those two guys from 2002-2007. Funnily enough both Hopkins and Jones came crawling to Joe for a payday when they had little to lose and he was top 2 or 3 P4P. No-one seems to see it like that though, it's always Joe fought them when they were old, utter bollocks

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Why are you asking me that when it was you who said fighting lesser fighters instead of a career high purse is a duck? You said Bernard Hopkins ducked Joe Calzaghe. That is absolutely false. He was offered a three fight contract with Showtime (when he was previously with the better-paying HBO) that would culminate in a $3m payday versus the also unknown Joe Calzaghe. Hopkins felt he was worth more at the time and, within the same period that he would've fought Calzaghe in, he proved it. And fought Calzaghe anyway. For double the amount.

LOL@ using Hopkins fighting Calzaghe in 2008 as justification for him ducking him in 2002.

Im sure Hopkins knew that he'd get double fighting Joe 6 years later, just like he knew he'd get more fighting Oscar 3 years later!

Its funny how these rules only apply to certain fighters.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

So there you go, Calzaghe gets a bad rap from ignorant Americans and his haters alike regarding Hopkins and it's completely unfair. We must remember Hopkins couldn't get the deal done with Roy Jones for their rematch when both were on top of the P4P lists, a fight he needed for his legacy. It's clear Hopkins didn't want either of those two guys from 2002-2006. Funnily enough both Hopkins and Jones came crawling to Joe for a payday when they had little to lose and he was top 2 or 3 P4P. No-one seems to see it like that though, it's always Joe fought them when they were old, utter bollocks

Yep that's a point I was going to make. As soon as Hopkins and Roy called his name out in the media, the fights got made.

[IMDAZED]

LOL@ using Hopkins fighting Calzaghe in 2008 as justification for him ducking him in 2002.

Im sure Hopkins knew that he'd get double fighting Joe 6 years later, just like he knew he'd get more fighting Oscar 3 years later!

Its funny how these rules only apply to certain fighters.

I didn't use it for justification. I listed my reasons (ie. everything else I said other than last two sentences).

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I didn't use it for justification. I listed my reasons (ie. everything else I said other than last two sentences).

And I debunked them quite swiftly and easily. Hopkins priced himself out of the fight after originally agreeing. There really isn't much more to it. Using hindsight and a fight with Oscar which he had no knowledge of and took place 3/4 years later is a pathetic excuse....i mean "reason"

[deleted]

too many pages for a euro bum.....

[IMDAZED]

And I debunked them quite swiftly and easily. Hopkins priced himself out of the fight after originally agreeing. There really isn't much more to it. Using hindsight and a fight with Oscar which he had no knowledge of and took place 3/4 years later is a pathetic excuse....i mean "reason"

How did you debunk them?

[Dirk Diggler UK]

How did you debunk them?

Quite easily actually. If a fighter turns down a fight, he should have a better fighter lined up immediately, otherwise its a clear duck. The fact that at the time, it was Hopkins biggest payday just makes it an even worse case of ducking.

You cant wait 3/4 years and say "ha see told you".

[slick23]

As far as Calzaghe goes ,he wasn't a big name in the states, back in 2002. Hell he wasn't that big of a name after he housed Lacy. That said the likes of Jones and Hopkins all knew he had big time ability, and fighting a virtual unknown who happened to be damned good was not good business acumen.

When I say "unknown" I'm speaking of the casual fight fan in the U.S.
Dirk I hear what your saying on the issue of its kind of a "pussified" way of being smart, but the fighters didn't make it that way.

Take Bradley's case as a modern example. Yeah its true that saying he held out for Pacquiao would be best labled as hindsight. However I went to his fight at the Silverdome against Alexander and fans there knew that he was guaranteed a million dollar fight afterwards. Yeah everybody was pissed that he wasn't fighting Khan next, but they knew why. He said well I'll take the money you owe me and fight someone else and let that fight simmer for a bit and eventually make more. Ateast that's how I understood it. Anyone that says this or that fighter would have done it different is talking silly.

Now things just so happened to work out and he landed the fight with Pac,
Now here's where someone like Mayweather has it right. Cats in the media were saying Bradley is scared of Khan or Max Kellerman is saying he openly ducked Khan. I'm sorry but when someone in the media claims a fighter is ducking such and such, they are implying said fighter is scared which is BS. They don't even provide the backround negotiation info, they just throw around accusatory statements These dudes are "prizefighters" and they fight for prizes. They are looking for the best deal possible.

No one in the game is any better than the other. You don't get in the game if your "scared" that's all bs. It's all about the money. I don't think we"ll see better quality fights in the divisions until the big names like May/Pac are gone, because everyone is chasing that big payday.