When Did Holding Become Big and Turn Into A Strategy?

[AlwaysOnTop]

real question. I remember Ray Mancini a year or 2 ago saying the biggest difference between the guys of this era and the guys of his era is the in-fighting and holding. He said that no guys held when he was fighting. You had to learn how to be a good in-fighter.

Now he said that alot of guys hold and refs are a much bigger factor. He said that back in the day there would be hardly any clinches because guys would stay shoulder to shoulder and fight on the inside. Now they land shots and hold before someone can counter back or just hold on the inside period. Do you agree?

Another real question. How did you guys feel about Mosley vs Margarito? Shane used that as a tactic against Margarito too. It didnt stand out as much because Shane let his hands go alot and with bombs but he still held after every single combo and before the slow Margarito could get off.

Thats why I always tell people that Pac had a rougher time with Margarito and didnt stop him. Its because Shane held and Pac didnt. If Shane doesnt hold then he still wins but its a bit of a rougher fight and it might go the distance with Shane taking some punishment back in the process

Shane and Margo were both beaten by the time Pac got the nuts to go near them..

If Pac didn't want to be held there are things he could have done...but since he has ZERO inside game...he ACCEPTED those clinches.

Manny better be glad Shane didn't go to his body and fought like a Top Rank employee...

Molina held like an OCTOPUS against Kirkland....why aren't you BI.TCHING about that?????

Hmmmmm

[SCtrojansbaby]

I think people should recognize the difference between what Abril was doing and what Molina was doing. Molina was aggressively clinching and being physical while landing clear punches, Abril landed a few clean punches but for the most part was just stalling when he was holding

[Russian Crushin]

I think people should recognize the difference between what Abril was doing and what Molina was doing. Molina was aggressively clinching and being physical while landing clear punches, Abril landed a few clean punches but for the most part was just stalling when he was holding

Molinas holding was 100X worse then Abrils clinching, no matter how many punches he landed

He would fling himself onto kirkland and wrap around him and hold for like 5-8 secs until the ref had to separate them. He was either punching or holding he entire fight

[AlwaysOnTop]

Molinas holding was 100X worse then Abrils clinching, no matter how many punches he landed

He would fling himself onto kirkland and wrap around him and hold for like 5-8 secs until the ref had to separate them. He was either punching or holding he entire fight

Amen to that...

[AlwaysOnTop]

I think people should recognize the difference between what Abril was doing and what Molina was doing. Molina was aggressively clinching and being physical while landing clear punches, Abril landed a few clean punches but for the most part was just stalling when he was holding

Somebody get this scab some glasses..

[crold1]

Manicini is remembering his fights, which had a lot to do with how he was matched.

Holding has been big for at least this long:

[Jack Napier]

holding is ok as long as you're using it as part of a combination
Shane vs Tony is a good example
lots of holding, but only after a sick series of punches was thrown
holding doesn't mar a fight if it's used strategically
it only mars a fight if it's used when a guy's in bitch mode

[DLT]

again, the Jack Johnson thing is so overstated. Why do people keep going back that far? It wasnt a structured sport back then. The first fight in that video, they arent even in a ring. In another fight the dude intentionally tries to headbutt JJ on multiple occasions and no one cared. It was just a different sport with minimal amounts of structure.

Also for the record, I want everyone to know that Im not taking sides or anything. I was just asking a question. Sometimes people try to group everything into a group but every situation is different. I see no problem at all with Mosley against Margarito. I see no problem with Hopkins, e****ally prime Hopkins who was old skool & gritty.

However, there are other guys who hold non stop and they should be penalyzed. If holding is the #1 part of what you are doing then you should be penalyzed. Again, I hate some of the things the Klit's get away with as far as leaning on guys and using the stiff arm. The ref shouldnt allow that and those guys dont need to do that because they are already good without it.

I watched both the Rios & JMM fights this weekend but I was doing something while watching both so I didnt focus on the fight a ton. I need to watch it back to make a judgement on it. I actually didnt even know that Abril was holding and I saw more of the JMM fight.

I did like the shell he was using and I thought he looked good but I also thought that Rios looked a lil like Kirkland did against Molina. I thought both Rios & Kirk looked very sluggish from the start for whatever reason. Thats not taking anything away from the 2 opponents because I was the 1st one who talked up a Molina fight and I give boxers way more credit for there fighting styles then most guys do