When Did Holding Become Big and Turn Into A Strategy?

[DLT]

real question. I remember Ray Mancini a year or 2 ago saying the biggest difference between the guys of this era and the guys of his era is the in-fighting and holding. He said that no guys held when he was fighting. You had to learn how to be a good in-fighter.

Now he said that alot of guys hold and refs are a much bigger factor. He said that back in the day there would be hardly any clinches because guys would stay shoulder to shoulder and fight on the inside. Now they land shots and hold before someone can counter back or just hold on the inside period. Do you agree?

Another real question. How did you guys feel about Mosley vs Margarito? Shane used that as a tactic against Margarito too. It didnt stand out as much because Shane let his hands go alot and with bombs but he still held after every single combo and before the slow Margarito could get off.

Thats why I always tell people that Pac had a rougher time with Margarito and didnt stop him. Its because Shane held and Pac didnt. If Shane doesnt hold then he still wins but its a bit of a rougher fight and it might go the distance with Shane taking some punishment back in the process

[Doctor_Tenma]

It was much easier to cope with Mosley's tactics as he threw before holding and he let his punches go alot. Molina on the other hand would initiate a clinch without throwing and hold on for 8-15 seconds, he would also tie Kirkland up, give the impression that he's trying to back him into a corner, then do absolutely nothing. After tiring Kirkland out, he would fight in the last minute, those tactics seemed really cowardly. When clinching is your only means of neutralizing a fighter's offense, fight can get really boring. This is why quality refs are important, though a quality ref wouldn't have helped Rios last night.

[isbj]

I'm not sure when, but if I had to guess I would say when John Ruiz used that strategy for quite a few key victories. The same thing almost happened with spitting out the mouthpiece, but refs were forced to cracked down on that.

Bottom line is holding is illegal and the refs should crack down on it. Can you imagine how different the top of the food chain in boxing would be if holding issue was actually addressed?

With that being said Rios was still soundly outboxed by Abril. Most of the tie ups in that fight were initiated by Rios because he doesn't know how to fight on the inside. When on the inside you still need some sort of distance to get off clean punches. You can't just rush in and throw wild punches and try to lean and rest on a guy and expect him to just let you do it. It's not like Rios was throwing clean uppercuts and short hooks inside, he was throwing wild arm punches where most of the time his forearm was landing more than his glove.

[- v e t -]

When Did Holding Become Big and Turn Into A Strategy?

when the 0 became over rated

[Russian Crushin]

It was much easier to cope with Mosley's tactics as he threw before holding and he let his punches go alot. Molina on the other hand would initiate a clinch without throwing and hold on for 8-15 seconds, he would also tie Kirkland up, give the impression that he's trying to back him into a corner, then do absolutely nothing. After tiring Kirkland out, he would fight in the last minute, those tactics seemed really cowardly. When clinching is your only means of neutralizing a fighter's offense, fight can get really boring. This is why quality refs are important, though a quality ref wouldn't have helped Rios last night.

So because Mosley threw right before he held, it was ok that he held? Cmon that makes no sense. He held excessively and didnt even allow Marg to throw

A big part of shane winning was because of the holding

[Boxingtech718v2]

real question. I remember Ray Mancini a year or 2 ago saying the biggest difference between the guys of this era and the guys of his era is the in-fighting and holding. He said that no guys held when he was fighting. You had to learn how to be a good in-fighter.

Now he said that alot of guys hold and refs are a much bigger factor. He said that back in the day there would be hardly any clinches because guys would stay shoulder to shoulder and fight on the inside. Now they land shots and hold before someone can counter back or just hold on the inside period. Do you agree?

Another real question. How did you guys feel about Mosley vs Margarito? Shane used that as a tactic against Margarito too. It didnt stand out as much because Shane let his hands go alot and with bombs but he still held after every single combo and before the slow Margarito could get off.

Thats why I always tell people that Pac had a rougher time with Margarito and didnt stop him. Its because Shane held and Pac didnt. If Shane doesnt hold then he still wins but its a bit of a rougher fight and it might go the distance with Shane taking some punishment back in the process

Let's be serious here, Pac didn't clinch because it wouldn't be smart for him to do that. With his speed and footwork and Cheatto being so slow there was never a need for him to clinch. If anything him clinching and staying in Cheatto's range only helps Marg.

[Doctor_Tenma]

So because Mosley threw right before he held, it was ok that he held? Cmon that makes no sense. He held excessively and didnt even allow Marg to throw

A big part of shane winning was because of the holding

Didn't say ok, but it was easier to cope with in comparison to what I've seen lately.

[Russian Crushin]

Holding has always been a strategy. THeres also a difference between holding and clinching.

People have to realize that just because one guy is exciting and a brawler, doesnt mean his opponent has to fight his fight.

Also you do whatever the ref allows. If he's not calling holds, you hold. Its part of any game. It aint cheating unless you're caught. It might sound harsh but thats how it works

[Evil Abed]

The boxing commissions need to start enforcing holding rules the same across the board.

This aint like a strike zone in baseball. Its either holding is allowed or not.

The ref from Collazo-Berto had it right. Early warnings and even a point deduction can improve a fight drastically.

[ramses07]

I'm not sure when, but if I had to guess I would say when John Ruiz used that strategy for quite a few key victories. The same thing almost happened with spitting out the mouthpiece, but refs were forced to cracked down on that.

Bottom line is holding is illegal and the refs should crack down on it. Can you imagine how different the top of the food chain in boxing would be if holding issue was actually addressed?

With that being said Rios was still soundly outboxed by Abril. Most of the tie ups in that fight were initiated by Rios because he doesn't know how to fight on the inside. When on the inside you still need some sort of distance to get off clean punches. You can't just rush in and throw wild punches and try to lean and rest on a guy and expect him to just let you do it. It's not like Rios was throwing clean uppercuts and short hooks inside, he was throwing wild arm punches where most of the time his forearm was landing more than his glove.

acosta was outboxing rios the same way, only difference is he didnt hold everytime rios threw a punch...pretty sure acosta couldve done the same thing and beat rios that way.