Has Manny improved?

[straightleft]

Manny is not on the decline.

Manny Pacquiao is the same boxer who fought Barrera and Morales.

He's no different. Its just that he's run out of losers to target, and when that happened, he had to step up against men who can box and move instead of just losers who plod forward and retreat backwards.

Mosley ran but showed that Pacquiao isn't effective at all unless you stand and trade.

JMM simply moved to the sides after punching and left Manny looking confused and desperate.

Manny has NOT improved. If he has in one aspect, its in stamina. His stamina to dart in and out for 12 rounds is impressive.


As a technical boxer, no he hasn't even made any adjustments.

His approach and methods are ALL the same with some added stamina.

Those things are the measure of improvement.

Idiot! You talk like Marquez is some kind of a bum who give Pac problems. Marquez style is the way to beat Pacquaio but still came up short but you talk like everybody can duplicate Marquez style. After Pac vs Marquez 1 ended in a, draw the blue print to beat Pacquaio was laid down clearly to follow by his last 10 opponents but guess what happened? Pacquaio still beat the hell out of them in one sided fashion inculding Mosley.

[Housed Fugitive]

Idiot! You talk like Marquez is some kind of a bum who give Pac problems. Marquez style is the way to beat Pacquaio but still came up short but you talk like everybody can duplicate Marquez style. After Pac vs Marquez 1 ended in a, draw the blue print to beat Pacquaio was laid down clearly to follow by his last 10 opponents but guess what happened? Pacquaio still beat the hell out of them in one sided fashion inculding Mosley.

except Marquez

[PlayerKiller]

First Marquez fight, right and left over and over.

Second Pac used a bit more strategy anf got a KD.

Pac has improved, but, he hasn't solved Marquez.

iN FACT HE DIDN'T EVEN GET 1 kd, SO MAYBE HE'S owrse now.

[straightleft]

except Marquez

Just because he didnt improve his game against Marquez therefore there is no improvements on his overall style? Whoever thinks like this is ****** to the bone. Even if Pac didnt improve at all, beating prime Barrera is better than all the fighters in Floyd resume.

[Brother Jay]

actually I saw one of clottey's early fights on espn classic or something and he was throwing a TON of bombs. got the KO. dont know why hes not more offensive minded, dude's got power.

but then again thats just one fight and I havent seen all his fights so yeah maybe it was just a one off thing...

Ah .. you see my point.

Like most things in life, things are usually distinguished by patterns/habits.

When you are a fan of boxing and you've seen a fighter box a few times, you can recognize when he's is sharp and when he is coming in seemingly gunshy or for a lack of a better word "different".

Clottey came in "different" for Pacquiao. Clottey usually takes chances and is a much busier fighter.

He did none of that with Pacquiao and Pacquiao even backed off to give Joshua room to work so the fight wouldn't stink so badly. Joshua wouldn't bite.

But yeah .. win or lose Clottey usually comes to fight.

[Roja's480]

100% AGREED! Same fighter as before, all fighters over 30 are declining, so dont use that excuse. Pac is one of the dumbest fighters I have ever seen. Roach is also one of the dumbest trainers I have ever seen. He should be a conditioning coach, thats what hes good at, but when it comes to strategy he sucks. Just listen at his responses when his fighters 100 punch combos doesnt work and his fighters are losing. He says throw more punches, lol what a dumb idot! lol

[straightleft]

Ah .. you see my point.

Like most things in life, things are usually distinguished by patterns/habits.

When you are a fan of boxing and you've seen a fighter box a few times, you can recognize when he's is sharp and when he is coming in seemingly gunshy or for a lack of a better word "different".

Clottey came in "different" for Pacquiao. Clottey usually takes chances and is a much busier fighter.

He did none of that with Pacquiao and Pacquiao even backed off to give Joshua room to work so the fight wouldn't stink so badly. Joshua wouldn't bite.

But yeah .. win or lose Clottey usually comes to fight.

Funny I just read your signature and this is my humble reply.

"Asking for catchweight then came overweight is an admission of cowardice in a fair fight ."

[Canelo Phresh]

[ADP02]

ALL OF THE FIGHTERS YOU MENTIONED ARE BETTER THAN PACQUIAO....

PACQUIAO HAS NO BOXING SKILLS AND RELIES HEAVILY ON HIS ATHLETICISM....

Hes a weaker Roy Jones IMO.....

Simply put PAC cannot box, and he will be fighting many years from now, just watch. Because he doesnt have as much money as you guys think.....

Marquez is a very good fighter. Ask anyone .... they had 3 great fights ....

Frazier and Norton gave Ali just as much if not more problems than Marquez did to Manny. Right? Could you imagine if there were forums back then? They would be saying the same about Ali and his chances against Foreman ..... the Foreman who KOed both Frazier and Norton easily!


While the type of fighters mentioned are not the same but its still an example of you can't always judge by how he fought against 1 and sometimes 2 opponents.


Nobody is going to say Manny is a great boxer but he is a decent boxer who should not be trying to out box a boxer such as Marquez.

As I said in another post, the game plan Roach had for Manny was all wrong when they fought at 144lbs.

[Brother Jay]

Idiot! You talk like Marquez is some kind of a bum who give Pac problems. Marquez style is the way to beat Pacquaio but still came up short but you talk like everybody can duplicate Marquez style. After Pac vs Marquez 1 ended in a, draw the blue print to beat Pacquaio was laid down clearly to follow by his last 10 opponents but guess what happened? Pacquaio still beat the hell out of them in one sided fashion inculding Mosley.

No, I don't talk as if Marquez is some bum. Pacquiao, Roach and Ariza talked about Marquez as if he was some bum. They said God himself couldn't save Marquez from what the new and improved Pacquiao was going to do to him.

Marquez didn't have a close fight in their third fight. Pacquiao won may 4 rounds in that entire fight. The worst part of it all is that the majority of the boxing world agrees with me.

Writers, pundits, fighters, judges and fans all believe that Marquez won. Many of us believe that it wasn't close.

After Pac/JMM 1, Morales kicked Manny's asss. So WTF are you talking about?

After that, Pac fought Morales again even though Morales just lost to Raheem, and then went on to seek out plodders instead of boxers who can move.

As I said before shithead, Pac is the product of clever matchmaking, not mysterious improvement after 13 years into the game.

I didn't make up the criticism that Manny Pacquiao avoids slick Black fighters. The world of boxing noticed that pattern. I just happen to be one of them.

Plodding, straight-foward punchers are EXACTLY what Pacquiao needed. But they might still be too much. So Roach made sure to wait until they either lost or looked really bad before he would set Manny up to fight them. Then, as if that wasn't stacking the deck enough, Roach insisted on swelterweights to further weaken the straight-forward punchers coming of big losses.

Is THAT the measure of how much BETTER Manny Pacquiao has gotten?

JMM was the last LAST fighter who was a reigning champion that Pacquiao fought and that was in 2008. Is it a coincidence that JMM was also the first reigning champion that Pacquiao has fought since fighting him in 2008?

How the hell do you gauge improvement when the competition gets less competitive?

They were all coming off career losses. A few of them were dehydrated. And none of them had the style or more accurately the legs to avoid Manny's full on dart in-and-out assault.

Do you even watch boxing? Is this all a mystery to you? It isn't rocket science.

Manny did not fight any #1, 2 or 3 fighters since JMM in 2008.

Manny did not seek out champions.

How does one call that improving? Wouldn't Manny have to step up his level of competition or at least let the WW and jrMW guys come in at their own comfortable weights in order to be able to say he's improved in any way?

Pacquiao was winning BEFORE!!! Saying that Manny Pacquiao improved in any way is automatically implying that he stepped up the level of something he was doing or the challenges he was taking on. Neither is true.

Pacquiao cleverly made his matches APPEAR as if he stepped up by pretending to be "ohhh soooo small", but on fight night he was the same size as his opponents if not bigger! Manny Pacquiao has been damn near making the WW limit years before ever competing at WW!

I'm done with your ******ity for now.

But I loved how you started off by being rude with the insults. Better to get your jabs in early before I stomp on the dogshit that is your post and then wipe my shoe off on your face.

Savor the flavor, my man.