Was 2009 Manny's Best Year?

[IronDanHamza]

I wouldn't call it pathetic. Margarito gave him a tough go in spots and everyone I watched with (all casual fans) had their jaws on the floor. From an entertainment standpoint, it succeeded. It was worthless in terms of belt and career enhancement. That said, since we both agree on Clottey, hard to call that a terrible year. It was just the average year gone by.

I think it was a terrible year for the #1 P4P ranked fighter.

Of course, he isn't the first to do it but it doesn't make it ok.

Clottey was just about acceptable considering he was coming off 2 tough fights on paper but Margarito was a joke. Regardless to the entertainment value. Fighting someone who is close to 2 years without a legit win is a joke in my book.

Last year? Bleh. didn't like either match on paper even if the latter turned out well from a viewing/challenge perspective...we'll skip rehashing the scoring debate. This year is off to a good start and Bradley is the best fighter he's fought in terms of on paper quality before the fight since Cotto.

Mosley obviously was beyond a joke and the Marquez fight I felt he lost clearly so last year was another terrible year for him, IMO.

Marquez was a cherry pick but it turned out to bite him on the ass.

In terms of so-called P4P guys coasting, and considering his age, Pac has never floated as bad as Floyd did from 03-05 or Roy between Toney and the rise to move to 75 (There's no equivalent to Paz or Bruseles) for whatever that's worth.

Atleast, Mayweather wasn't the P4P #1 during 03-05. Although amongst the Top P4P fighters.

As for Roy though, I agree.

Like I said, Pac's not the first to take fights like he has when he's been in the #1 spot but that doesn't make him any better.

Where have you gone Hank Dimaggio.[/QUOTE]

[New England]

Beating Margarito was completely worthless and pathetic.

Beating Clottey was a solid win but that's about where it stops in my opinion.

I'd script it the same, but of course, Pacquaio's camp wanted no part of Mosley at that point.

margarito almost dropped him and did end up touching his grill up some. to be fair to pacquiao he's frequently marked up. margarito certainly wasnt taking it to him for any extended stretched in any of the rounds. but he did have him in more trouble than he had been in some time

he certainly put up the better fight than clottey. a solid win. clottey did nothing, but we can credit pacquiao some for that. clottey's face and skin dont show damage, but you could tell by his eyes at the end of the fight that he was taking a beating. he was glazed over. manny went in there with one of the biggest WW's of late coming off of a life and death fight with miguel cotto and beat the trash out of him.


it's amazing what we take for granted, lol
the guy won a lineal title at flyweight

[crold1]

I think it was a terrible year for the #1 P4P ranked fighter.

Of course, he isn't the first to do it but it doesn't make it ok.

Clottey was just about acceptable considering he was coming off 2 tough fights on paper but Margarito was a joke. Regardless to the entertainment value. Fighting someone who is close to 2 years without a legit win is a joke in my book.



Mosley obviously was beyond a joke and the Marquez fight I felt he lost clearly so last year was another terrible year for him, IMO.

Marquez was a cherry pick but it turned out to bite him on the ass.



Atleast, Mayweather wasn't the P4P #1 during 03-05. Although amongst the Top P4P fighters.

As for Roy though, I agree.

Like I said, Pac's not the first to take fights like he has when he's been in the #1 spot but that doesn't make him any better.

Where have you gone Hank Dimaggio.

[/QUOTE]

When he signed Clottey, Clottey was the next best available Welter (Mosly-Berto hadn't died yet) beyond Floyd. That's exactly what he was supposed to do as a Welterweight (which actually exists as opposed to P4P silliness). And won easy. You might be putting too much stock in "#1" if a year with that can be called terrible. As to Marg, he was suspended. It wasn't like he was just getting slaughtered for a year. I don't think that fight was the right choice, but Marg proved in the ring it was no joke and to be about as good as he ever was. He made Manny dig deep with some great body work (especially in the 5th). That's a better win than you're giving it credit for.

Floyd was well in the discussion those years and could have fought better, especially at Lightweight. Since being involved in P4P type discussion is predicated on what happens in divisions, his 03-05 run at 35 and 40 was worse IMO.

I still think Pac eeked out Marquez III but last year wasn't his best. Mosley was hot garbage as a fight. In terms of lesser years, 10 rates with 02 in Pac's last decade. Overall the run is still fairly amazing and if he beats Bradley the less will fold into the more as just part of a big picture.

[IronDanHamza]

When he signed Clottey, Clottey was the next best available Welter (Mosly-Berto hadn't died yet) beyond Floyd. That's exactly what he was supposed to do as a Welterweight (which actually exists as opposed to P4P silliness). And won easy. You might be putting too much stock in "#1" if a year with that can be called terrible. As to Marg, he was suspended. It wasn't like he was just getting slaughtered for a year. I don't think that fight was the right choice, but Marg proved in the ring it was no joke and to be about as good as he ever was. He made Manny dig deep with some great body work (especially in the 5th). That's a better win than you're giving it credit for.

Like I said, the Clottey win was a solid win he did what he had to do and it was possibly the best option available at WW at that time.

About as good as he ever was? That's completely absurd. Margarito in late 2010 was as good as he ever was? Absolutely not.

Margarito was coming off a war, a utter pummeling stoppage and a tune up fight in which he looked dead average.

He got absolutely dismantled, lost every round to Pacquaio and just because he landed a decent body shot that backed Pacquaio up for roughly 5-7 seconds you're telling me he was the same fighter he always was?

Added to that, in his next fight he gets dominated and loses every round.

It's absolutely not a better win than I am giving credit for. It's a complete joke and no more than a washed up name to add to a resume.

When a guy hasn't won a legit fight in 2 years and in his last legit fight got beaten from pillar to post and stopped then it's not a good fight. Whether he was suspended or not.

Floyd was well in the discussion those years and could have fought better, especially at Lightweight. Since being involved in P4P type discussion is predicated on what happens in divisions, his 03-05 run at 35 and 40 was worse IMO.

He was certainly in the discussion but he wasn't the unanimous P4P #1 like Pacquaio was in 2010.

Mayweather's run from 03-05 was worse than Pacquaio's run from 2010 to now, I agree. Albeit, again, Mayweather wasn't P4P #1 during that period of time.

I still think Pac eeked out Marquez III but last year wasn't his best. Mosley was hot garbage as a fight. In terms of lesser years, 10 rates with 02 in Pac's last decade. Overall the run is still fairly amazing and if he beats Bradley the less will fold into the more as just part of a big picture.

I agree, mostly.

[PAC-BOY]

margarito almost dropped him and did end up touching his grill up some. to be fair to pacquiao he's frequently marked up. margarito certainly wasnt taking it to him for any extended stretched in any of the rounds. but he did have him in more trouble than he had been in some time

he certainly put up the better fight than clottey. a solid win. clottey did nothing, but we can credit pacquiao some for that. clottey's face and skin dont show damage, but you could tell by his eyes at the end of the fight that he was taking a beating. he was glazed over. manny went in there with one of the biggest WW's of late coming off of a life and death fight with miguel cotto and beat the trash out of him.


it's amazing what we take for granted, lol
the guy won a lineal title at flyweight

:qqq::qqq::qqq:

[SplitSecond]

Beating Margarito was completely worthless and pathetic.

Beating Clottey was a solid win but that's about where it stops in my opinion.

I'd script it the same, but of course, Pacquaio's camp wanted no part of Mosley at that point.

fighting someone so much bigger can't be considered pathetic
are we forgetting where pacquiao came from?

[crold1]

Like I said, the Clottey win was a solid win he did what he had to do and it was possibly the best option available at WW at that time.

About as good as he ever was? That's completely absurd. Margarito in late 2010 was as good as he ever was? Absolutely not.

Margarito was coming off a war, a utter pummeling stoppage and a tune up fight in which he looked dead average.

He got absolutely dismantled, lost every round to Pacquaio and just because he landed a decent body shot that backed Pacquaio up for roughly 5-7 seconds you're telling me he was the same fighter he always was?

Added to that, in his next fight he gets dominated and loses every round.

It's absolutely not a better win than I am giving credit for. It's a complete joke and no more than a washed up name to add to a resume.

When a guy hasn't won a legit fight in 2 years and in his last legit fight got beaten from pillar to post and stopped then it's not a good fight. Whether he was suspended or not.



He was certainly in the discussion but he wasn't the unanimous P4P #1 like Pacquaio was in 2010.

Mayweather's run from 03-05 was worse than Pacquaio's run from 2010 to now, I agree. Albeit, again, Mayweather wasn't P4P #1 during that period of time.



I agree, mostly.

You're right. That was overstatement on Margarito. He had certainly slipped from Cotto. Whereever the icon is where one hits themself in the head can go here. It wasn't the right fight to take and he could have had a better foe. We can agree there.

As to Mayweather...he was THE #1 Lightweight in the world. He failed to meet that obligation. That matters more because Lightweight is real. Pacquiao is 1 of the two best Welters. He's been hit and miss on those obligations but never as bad as 03-05 May and there are plenty who have seen Floyd as better than him in 10, 11 etc.

[IronDanHamza]

fighting someone so much bigger can't be considered pathetic
are we forgetting where pacquiao came from?

So naturally, Mayweather beating Baldomir isn't pathetic?

[IronDanHamza]

You're right. That was overstatement on Margarito. He had certainly slipped from Cotto. Whereever the icon is where one hits themself in the head can go here. It wasn't the right fight to take and he could have had a better foe. We can agree there.

As to Mayweather...he was THE #1 Lightweight in the world. He failed to meet that obligation. That matters more because Lightweight is real. Pacquiao is 1 of the two best Welters. He's been hit and miss on those obligations but never as bad as 03-05 May and there are plenty who have seen Floyd as better than him in 10, 11 etc.

Oh, by all means I absolutely agree.

Mayweather's run between 03-05 was bad, real bad. And unacceptable for a Top P4P fighter.

I'm just saying it differs to Pacquaio's situation.

Again, Mayweather's run was certainly worse than Pacquio's. There's no doubt to that. Clottey alone is better than anything Mayweather did in that time span.

But, atleast he wasn't the unanimous P4P #1 during that time is all I was saying.

[crold1]

Oh, by all means I absolutely agree.

Mayweather's run between 03-05 was bad, real bad. And unacceptable for a Top P4P fighter.

I'm just saying it differs to Pacquaio's situation.

Again, Mayweather's run was certainly worse than Pacquio's. There's no doubt to that. Clottey alone is better than anything Mayweather did in that time span.

But, atleast he wasn't the unanimous P4P #1 during that time is all I was saying.

Even if that's the standard, the presence of Mayweather since 09 has meant Pacquiao was NEVER unanimous. It's a serious debate (and that's all it is because these two divas won't fight).

I'd also say Mayweather would have said in 2003 that he thought he was #1. In retrospect, he probably was.