Why are people so critical of Haye's performance against Wlad?

[IMDAZED]

To me though he always looks very nervous the first few rounds until he is confident that what he is doing is working and Haye needed to make him panic and question whether this would be the usual Wlad show. It would have also been very risky for Haye but it was his big moment, he had the ability to do it but just would not take the risk.

There was no way he was going to beat Wlad on the outside throwing half the punches Wlad was throwing.

He could have, if he had thrown. Don't know...like I said, his balls weren't big enough.

I think the idea that to beat Wlad all you have to do is go gung-ho and attack and have the power blah blah...it's not happening, as nervous as he might look. You're in for a frustrating night with that plan and he won't be beat that way again. His style is suited to negate that off top. And I have to commend him and Manny Steward for that. I truly believe the way to beat him is to make him lead - same way to beat Roy Jones.

[Russian Crushin]

Haye had a good ame plan to survive, thats all. No part of his game plan was to win, which i think is the ultimate point

Who cares how good your defense is if you dont try to win?

[Spray_resistant]

It could have been a way to go, but I am not sure if Haye has the mass to put Wlad on the back foot, like I mentioned earlier Wlad is much better now at blocking parrying and controlling distance, and Haye is a small heavyweight, he is not built like a natural heavy. Another way to put him in the back foot is work rate, but Haye does not have a high output, maybe he could have gone for it, but would gassing himself out after a few rounds have been smart?

He certainly had the power to hurt Wlad maybe not 1 punch ko him but hurting him early would have put Haye off to a great start because Wlad will not be as focused at that point on doing what he does which is finding the range and timing where he can land and not be landed on while keeping the fight at a moderate pace.

Haye also has the speed to land and throws punches from awkward angles as well which may have been hard to avoid.

Whether he would have gassed who could say but going into the fight I thought if Haye won it would be a short night for him.

[sunny31]

TS anyone who knows boxing and knows what the two fighters brought to the table and in the areas they are lacking knew that Haye's only chance was a slim punchers chance early where he needed to be aggressive, not let Wlad get into his usual gameplan he always imposes on opponents, put him on the defensive and land early with something hard to test that questionable chin also put doubts in Wlad's mind.

That has NOT always been his style. THat has been his style since coming up to the HW division and pretty much becoming a defensive 1 punch counter puncher.

Point is Vlad fought pretty much how he always fights and won a wide decision. He actually tried to win and well won.

Haye on the other hand was simply running around trying 1 punch counter bombs and it was obvious he was just there to survive and take your money. He didnt try to win and thats just not respectable 1 bit for any fighter let alone haye who talked for 2 years about saving the HW division and knocking Vlad out.

Wrong he has pretty much always fought like that, I don't know why people are saying this, Hitman said it earlier and is completely false. He has never been a combination fighter, and even at cruiserweight he didn't lead off very often, he used his jab more because the fighters were smaller and it was effective, like against Ruiz. You watch the fragomini fight, and Mormeck, he is countering trying walk them onto big shots, he only opens up when he hurts them.

Also you have to consider the calibre of the fighter, early in their career a lot of fighters are more aggressive. Wlad did not allow him to get off, I'm pretty sure he would tell you the same. People thinking he came to survive are so off the mark...that is the point of this thread, it is a myth.

[110110110]

Wlad is a small heavyweights worst nightmare

[sunny31]

Haye had a good ame plan to survive, thats all. No part of his game plan was to win, which i think is the ultimate point

Who cares how good your defense is if you dont try to win?

Not true at all, if he was there to survive he would not have been swinging for Wlad's head in the last round, and let's not forget that Wlad was the only fighter who was hurt in the fight in that 12th round.

[IronDanHamza]

To me though he always looks very nervous the first few rounds until he is confident that what he is doing is working and Haye needed to make him panic and question whether this would be the usual Wlad show. It would have also been very risky for Haye but it was his big moment, he had the ability to do it but just would not take the risk.

There was no way he was going to beat Wlad on the outside throwing half the punches Wlad was throwing.

Exactly.

That's why I can't see how his gameplan was a good one.

He's never going to win that way.

[Russian Crushin]

Not true at all, if he was there to survive he would not have been swinging for Wlad's head in the last round, and let's not forget that Wlad was the only fighter who was hurt in the fight in that 12th round.

Wow Haye finally landed his 1 punch and then "fought" the rest of the round

Guess that makes up for running in the 1st 11 rounds

[sunny31]

Haye had a good ame plan to survive, thats all. No part of his game plan was to win, which i think is the ultimate point

Who cares how good your defense is if you dont try to win?

He certainly had the power to hurt Wlad maybe not 1 punch ko him but hurting him early would have put Haye off to a great start because Wlad will not be as focused at that point on doing what he does which is finding the range and timing where he can land and not be landed on while keeping the fight at a moderate pace.

Haye also has the speed to land and throws punches from awkward angles as well which may have been hard to avoid.

Whether he would have gassed who could say but going into the fight I thought if Haye won it would be a short night for him.

The more I think about it the more I think you are right to a certain extent, he did need to stamp his authority on the fight early. But maybe he wanted to feel Wlads power first, walking on to a Wlad counter would not have been smart either, and it would have probably been curtains for Haye who doesn't have a reliable chin. Fine line!

[sunny31]

Wow Haye finally landed his 1 punch and then "fought" the rest of the round

Guess that makes up for running in the 1st 11 rounds

Like someone already said he wasn't really running, Wlad could not hit him for the long periods he was stationary, and its not like he is super aggressive, even when he has fought stationary guys he doesn't let his hands go much.

But hey he did what he had to do, it was a chess match, no offence but I just think some of you have an untrained eye.