Simple question, did Pacquaio duck Victor Ortiz and Andre Berto in 2011?

[Check_hooks]

Mosley would KTFO out of Ortiz and Berto and Marquez has more skill than both of them combined

[lfc19titles]

damn *****s are taking it to a new level

really pathetic thread

[Convicted_Felon]

This has crossed my mind a few times, so I'm bringing it to the table for discussion.

Did Pacquaio duck Andre Berto to fight Shane Mosley instead?

Did Pacquaio duck Victor Ortiz to fight JMM instead?

Simple question(s).

Quite simply, he certainly ducked Andre Berto. Here's why...
At the post fight presser for Pacquiao-Margarito, Bob Arum said his fighter has been fighting bigger guys for a while now. It's time for him to face a fighter his size. A fighter like Andre Berto. Bob threw Berto's name in the loop. The people were too caught up with Mayweather fighting Pacquiao so the media didn't prompt Bob Arum to say what he said. That presser took place on Nov. 14th. On Nov. 27th, there was a triple header on HBO that featured Berto and Marquez as co-main and main fights on the card. Berto KOd Freddy Hernandez inside of 1 round, while Marquez would rise from the canvass to score a stoppage over Katsidis. Of the 3 choices laid out for Pacquiao[which were Berto, Mosley, or Marquez], Pacquiao's team decided to go for the fighter who had just been defeated, and looked washed up in the fight following instead of taking on one of the other 2 fighters who won their bouts by KO or TKO. When Victor Ortiz went on to step up and face Berto, Pacquiao called Ortiz and told him that he is stronger and just as fast as Berto. That is clearly a major duck move. How can he offer advice on how to defeat a fighter whom he's never had the pleasure of doing business with inside that squared circle?

In the case of Victor Ortiz, I don't think that Manny ducked him at all. Manny was busy already. He had Mosley and Marquez very well lined up before the 1st bells rang on either fight. Manny was already busy and so was Ortiz. Even though I don't think Manny would have fought him anyway, there's no blatant ducking going on there. When it comes to Berto, there was clearly a bunch of ducking going on.

Once you understand the method behind the madness, you begin to see the truth of the matter behind the words. Words can be very misleading and this sport is based on lies. Fighters lie to their opponents in the ring when they give the impression that they haven't been hurt by a shot. Basically meaning that I know people are going to lie. Therefore, I analyze actions. Freddie Roach is too vocal. Sometimes he needs to shut the hell up because he gives away too much of his method to his madness. He's the type of trainer who looks to have an edge or some kind of advantage. With that said, if Freddie Roach says that someone's performance was impressive, he's really saying that his fighter [Pacquiao] will not be getting in the ring with that fighter anytime soon. I say Manny and his team made it a point to stay away from Berto because he posed a risk. He's fast with power and no matter who wins Berto-Ortiz 2. It matters none because Manny will not be stepping in the rign with the winner.

[Wapacman]

Mosley would KTFO out of Ortiz and Berto and Marquez has more skill than both of them combined

^^^^

[Gentso]

He fought Mosley and Marquez 100% for money and not because of ducking reasons. That's really the bottom line

[IMDAZED]

Of course he did. Pathetic, really.

[Rip Chudd]

So by some posters admission Pac missing better opponents is justified but if other fighters do it it's considered ducking? Just making sure. SMH

[4Corners]

What's so funny is that I have brought this up many times to Pacquiao fans, and the only response they have is "Those guys suck, overrated, hype-jobs".

The fact is, Manny Pacquiao chose to fight Antonio Margarito at a 150 CW for a 154 lb title in late 2010, and when Margarito was coming off getting KO'd by Mosley, instead of fighting Andre Berto who was unbeaten and who was in line to fight Mosley when Shane was winning. The other fact is, Manny Pacquiao chose to finally fight a 3rd Marquez fight in late 2011, at a weight where he was already dominated by Floyd at over 2 years prior, instead of fighting Victor Ortiz, who was coming off 5 straight wins (1 over Berto) and a draw he should have won over Lamont Peterson (which looks pretty good now).

Pacquiao fans don't want to hear it, but Berto in late 2010/early 2011 and Ortiz in late 2011 would have been FAR BETTER options than Margarito, Mosley, and Marquez, at the times of the fights.

So, you Manny Pacquiao fans can't have it both ways. Berto was calling out Manny in 2010 and Bob Arum (who you guys trust so much) said that he presented Manny with Berto, Mosley, and Marquez as options after his fight with Margarito and that it would be up to Manny. Also, Ortiz said he wanted to fight Manny Pacquiao after his win over Berto, and that didn't happen.

All I am saying is that Pac fans can't have it both ways. If you're going to say "Floyd may have avoided this guy or that guy", than start saying Manny may have avoided Raheem in 05'-06', Guzman in 07'-08', Mosley in 09', Berto in 10', and Ortiz in 11'. That's only fair, right???

But, I don't think it was so much of Manny deciding not to fight them, I think Arum picks his opponents for him usually, and probably persuades him greatly.

In the end, Berto lost to Ortiz, which made Victor Ortiz a legit top WW, and Floyd fought Ortiz.

I really wish Floyd would not have taken 16 months off after the Mosley fight. If Pacquiao wasn't happening, he should have fought Berto in late 2010. Either way, Floyd fought Ortiz, who beat Berto. But, the loser of Berto-Ortiz II has some real ground to make up. If Berto loses again, he won't be anywhere near getting big fights, unless he were to go on a roll and beat Alexander, Maidana, Bradley, etc. Same goes for Ortiz, who if he loses the rematch, will have 2 straight losses and a lot of ground to make up. However, the winner, they probably would deserve a potential shot at either Mayweather or Pacquiao, or at least Bradley.

[jrosales13]

Pac would have dominated either guy...neither guy is on Pac level.

But, he did avoid Berto. There was an offer on the table and Pac chose a lesser fighter.

Ortiz? Not so sure.

So Berto yea, Ortiz i don't think so.

[jrosales13]

What's so funny is that I have brought this up many times to Pacquiao fans, and the only response they have is "Those guys suck, overrated, hype-jobs".

The fact is, Manny Pacquiao chose to fight Antonio Margarito at a 150 CW for a 154 lb title in late 2010, and when Margarito was coming off getting KO'd by Mosley, instead of fighting Andre Berto who was unbeaten and who was in line to fight Mosley when Shane was winning. The other fact is, Manny Pacquiao chose to finally fight a 3rd Marquez fight in late 2011, at a weight where he was already dominated by Floyd at over 2 years prior, instead of fighting Victor Ortiz, who was coming off 5 straight wins (1 over Berto) and a draw he should have won over Lamont Peterson (which looks pretty good now).

Pacquiao fans don't want to hear it, but Berto in late 2010/early 2011 and Ortiz in late 2011 would have been FAR BETTER options than Margarito, Mosley, and Marquez, at the times of the fights.

So, you Manny Pacquiao fans can't have it both ways. Berto was calling out Manny in 2010 and Bob Arum (who you guys trust so much) said that he presented Manny with Berto, Mosley, and Marquez as options after his fight with Margarito and that it would be up to Manny. Also, Ortiz said he wanted to fight Manny Pacquiao after his win over Berto, and that didn't happen.

All I am saying is that Pac fans can't have it both ways. If you're going to say "Floyd may have avoided this guy or that guy", than start saying Manny may have avoided Raheem in 05'-06', Guzman in 07'-08', Mosley in 09', Berto in 10', and Ortiz in 11'. That's only fair, right???

But, I don't think it was so much of Manny deciding not to fight them, I think Arum picks his opponents for him usually, and probably persuades him greatly.

In the end, Berto lost to Ortiz, which made Victor Ortiz a legit top WW, and Floyd fought Ortiz.

I really wish Floyd would not have taken 16 months off after the Mosley fight. If Pacquiao wasn't happening, he should have fought Berto in late 2010. Either way, Floyd fought Ortiz, who beat Berto. But, the loser of Berto-Ortiz II has some real ground to make up. If Berto loses again, he won't be anywhere near getting big fights, unless he were to go on a roll and beat Alexander, Maidana, Bradley, etc. Same goes for Ortiz, who if he loses the rematch, will have 2 straight losses and a lot of ground to make up. However, the winner, they probably would deserve a potential shot at either Mayweather or Pacquiao, or at least Bradley.

Nah, he should have fought P-Will instead of Margarito. Not really Berto, Andre had been looking lackluster prior to that. The time to fight Berto was after the 1st round KO of Hernandez, which would have been during the Mosley fight. Pac had the offer on the table and chose a shot to pieces Mosley.