Simple question, did Pacquaio duck Victor Ortiz and Andre Berto in 2011?

[DeadLikeMe]

I wouldn't say he "ducked" them (although by ******* definition he did)...but the way the Pacquiao fanatics celebrated when Berto "lost his zero" told me that they didn't want Pac to fight him. Then we had weeks of spam from *******s about how Floyd Mayweather is vacation coward who would never fight a big strong young southpaw like Ortiz...If Mayweather ducked Cotto, then Pacquiao ducked Berto.

[BillyBoxing]

No need to debate, Pacquiao clearly dosn't want to fight real comp. A young strong hungry Lion in a ring looking for food and recognition, are you crazy! Pacquiao dosn't want any part of that ****!










There is only "ONE" who would except such a challenge!

Such a challenge who lost to Maidana and get a draw against Peterson

[AFighter4U]

Meh.

I guess to some folks, not having fought someone = DUCKING.

Manny is just one boxer who fights at least twice a year. Naturally, he's bound to not fight some fighters considering the number of contenders out there. But I guess common sense is seriously lacking for some posters here.

[illwill112]

a duck, to me, is when a fighter goes out of his way to avoid another fighter (eg. pacquiao's ducking of mayweather.)

i don't really think that was the case for berto and ortiz. they were just overlooked in favour of more lucrative fights.

So I guess by your theory Floyd ducking o PAC for three years would count as well?.

[Porter's Dad]

a duck, to me, is when a fighter goes out of his way to avoid another fighter (eg. pacquiao's ducking of mayweather.)

i don't really think that was the case for berto and ortiz. they were just overlooked in favour of more lucrative fights.

This. I mean, making the Mosley fight was so mind-bogglingly ******ed but it wasn't a duck of Berto, it was simply Arum doing what Arum does - trying to destabalise GBP by luring away one of its fighters/partners. If anyone thinks anyone from Team Pacquaio feared Berto, they are crazy. He would get annihilated, everyone knows this. Even Berto himself calling for the fight was half-hearted, he would much rather fight Floyd and get schooled than take a beating from Manny.

A duck to me is when either a fighter is calling out a fighter or the public are demanding it (and especially when its both) and he refuses to take it on. Like I said, Berto calling out Pac was half-hearted - and it only seemed a good fight once the frightening possibility of the corpse of Mosley as an opponent for Pac slowly became a reality.

I wouldn't say he "ducked" them (although by ******* definition he did)...but the way the Pacquiao fanatics celebrated when Berto "lost his zero" told me that they didn't want Pac to fight him.

This is a very ****** post.

90% of the forum was in raptures at Berto getting his ass handed to him by Ortiz because it was the boxing gods finally doing something about the farce that was Berto's fighting JWWs-at-WW run. How the hell you came to the conclusion that *******s breathed a sigh of relief when Berto lost cos they didn't want to Manny to fight him is bizarre, it really is.

[blacksocks]

Berto hasn't fought any quality fighters and is untested to go straight and fight the top P4P fighter at the time.

Ortiz wasn't even a top level fighter and was on the verge of being another journeyman after quitting against Maidana... and this was the guy who exposed Berto as "not yet there" to compete at the highest levels.

Mosley just destroyed Margarito and went 12 rounds with a top-notch fighter in Mayweather. His resume trumps both Berto's and Ortiz's.

Marquez was and still is one of the top P4P fighters today and had and still has a very compelling reason to get in the ring with Pacquiao. His resume likewise trumps that of Berto's and Ortiz's.

In short, had Pacquiao fought Berto and Ortiz instead, *****s will be saying Pac ducked Mosley and JMM.

I believe Pacquiao easily beats both Berto and Ortiz.

[PHOENIX623]

in my humble opinion.
pak beats both of them kids easily.

[Porter's Dad]

Berto hasn't fought any quality fighters and is untested to go straight and fight the top P4P fighter at the time.

Ortiz wasn't even a top level fighter and was on the verge of being another journeyman after quitting against Maidana... and this was the guy who exposed Berto as "not yet there" to compete at the highest levels.

Mosley just destroyed Margarito and went 12 rounds with a top-notch fighter in Mayweather. His resume trumps both Berto's and Ortiz's.

Marquez was and still is one of the top P4P fighters today and had and still has a very compelling reason to get in the ring with Pacquiao. His resume likewise trumps that of Berto's and Ortiz's.

In short, had Pacquiao fought Berto and Ortiz instead, *****s will be saying Pac ducked Mosley and JMM.

I believe Pacquiao easily beats both Berto and Ortiz.

The Mosley fight was only made cos Bob was trying to **** with GBP (Ortiz wasn't a feasible fight at that point, he was at a crossroads in his career). But regardless, it was a disgusting choice of opponent and pretty much indefensible, and they got what they deserved with the way that fight turned out.

[1nonlymre]

Based on the E-Boxing community's general definition of "ducking" you would have to say yes.

Berto & Ortiz were more viable opponents @ Welterweight than Mosley & Marquez.

Berto Especially though, at the time of the signing of the Mosley fight.

Interesting question that is not just related to Pacquiao, but any prize fighter of high stature and popularity.

It's true that by most e-boxing communities, not fighting a challenge is considered "ducking" be default. The fact is that there is more emphasis on sales and money than the matchup. Even up and comers fight selectively for the greater popularity stroke and ultimate higher income.

That's just the nature of the "game" nowadays. Unfortunately the belt organizations only feed into this as they want the greatest revenue and are used to it. This is why mandatories aren't upheld and shining stars aren't stripped of their titles with law convictions.

There are fighters, and above them are champions, and above them are the promoters and behind the scene folks, and above them all is the great all mighty dollar sign. Fact!

So, you ask if I think he ducked these fighters? No, I don't think he did, he followed the $$$ gameplan and it worked out for him. All boxers/promoters prescribe to the greater reward/lowest risk idea. On that basis, he did not duck. NOw, should he have fought them instead of the others that he fought? Oh, most definitely, I believe he should have. If we were to rewind some 20-30 years back, he might have.

[blacksocks]

The Mosley fight was only made cos Bob was trying to **** with GBP (Ortiz wasn't a feasible fight at that point, he was at a crossroads in his career). But regardless, it was a disgusting choice of opponent and pretty much indefensible, and they got what they deserved with the way that fight turned out.

Well, it isn't Pac's fault some of his fights aren't action pack from start to finish such was the case when he first fought Barrera, all his three fights with Morales, the first two fights with Marquez, the two rounds with Hatton and even his fight with Diaz and Margarito to some extent. The common denominator here is the willingness of his opponents to engage and fight!

Barrera learned his lesson fast by trying to survive in his second fight. De La Hoya was in survival mode most of the fight. Cotto went to his bike and was trying to survive 12 rounds after the second knockdown. Clottey employed the art of survival from the opening bell. Mosley was similar to Cotto and tried to survive after the knockdown.

Marquez perfected the art of survival against Pacquiao by learning from his previous experience with Pac and watching his other fights. Main lessons were: 1) don't get knocked down; 2) don't fight toe-to-toe 3) let him attack, step-back and then counterpunch with combinations 4) survive the 12 rounds and not make Pacquiao look good in each round by minimizing his opportunities.