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12/15/2003 Archived Entry: "Gym Wars"
"Gym Wars"
By "Ice" John Scully
Vinny Paz is another guy who destroys that old fable that Philadelphia has the best gym wars. You hear all the so called boxing experts, especially the Philly fighters, repeatedly talk up the legendary 'Philly sparring sessions', like they somehow box with more intensity within the city limits of Philadelphia. That's nonsense, seriously. I have been to Vinny's Gym in Providence many time and this guy loves the hard sparring.
The first time we sparred was in 1991 and we were both getting ready for fights. I was fighting a real cagey veteran named Randy Smith and just 4 days later Vinny was boxing Gilbert Dele for the WBA Junior Middleweight title. The first time we sparred I don't think Vinny even knew who I was or had heard of me. He said we could do 4 rounds. Fighters have a way of talking to each other that only they understand. Almost always after a round, the two boxers will touch gloves. Kind of a little tap. But Vinny and I were both throwing punches so hard and fast, every time the bell would ring we would both do the same exact thing: stop quickly, as if we were slamming on the brakes, look at each other for a couple moments, then **** gloves with each other real hard.
I am sure, from the body language that he was thinking the same exact thing I was - " I wish that round didn't end." After the 4th round he was like 'oh, man, you think you can go a couple more? I was thinking "man, this is what I live for." After that day, I used to go to him very often and the sparring was always fun. Vinny was the type of guy, if you were catching him with good shots he would **** his face with his gloves and yell 'Yeah! come On! He was not a terribly hard puncher, in the truest sense. But his overhand right, like the one he caught Dana Rosenblatt with, was an attention-getter if it got through.
Sometimes you might get a guy that takes the sparring a little too seriously. There is a kid here in Connecticut that I have sparred with a few times. An amateur 201 pounder, about 23 years old or so. A local amateur kid, not a national level kid or a guy you would have ever heard of. One time we sparred at my gym in Hartford for 4 pretty much uneventful rounds. A few days later a friend of mine asked me if I sparred with this kid the other day? I said 'yes' and he said 'Yeah, because he was at my gym saying he DOMINATED you'. That kind of thing is irritating.
If I spar with a good guy and we are going at it and it is serious sparring and he says "Yeah, I did good with Ice," then I have no problem. But when some amateur kid comes in and I do him a favor by working with him for a few rounds and then he starts talking stuff about it, that really gets to you. It's as if he saying "we're on the same." Well, that is not cool. There is certain etiquette I like to follow. It is times like that when I want to say "Oh, you wanna talk about what you did? How about we get to the gym one day and go at it for 10 rounds with no headgear?" Since that day, I have sparred with this kid 4 more times. Stopped him 5 times. Three times with body shots and twice with head shots. The last time, I hit him with such a vicious double hook to the body that if he didn't go down I would have been shocked. Now, it is not any kind of notch in my belt to say I stopped this guy so bad that he lost all the air in his body and his trainer had to come in the ring and get him up on all fours so he could try to regain his composure. Stopping him these times, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean much because I am a pro and he is an amateur. He is bigger than me, a strong kid that trains well to fight. But still, stopping him like that is not a big deal. For him, it will just go under the heading of 'A Lesson learned.'
What you have to understand is, in the gyms, boxers take all aspects of the sparring very seriously. Having a guy spout off about how he did this or that to you in the gym is an open invitation to go to war every time from then on out that we spar.
There was another time that I was getting ready to fight Art Baylis at Foxwoods Casino in a 10 round fight. I was really physically worn down from all the intense training and on my last day of sparring I worked with two good amateurs, a 156-pounder and a 178-pounder. The way I was feeling that day, the 156-pounder was too fast for me and the 178 was too strong. He manhandled me and pushed me all over the ring. I didn't panic though because I knew I had been working hard and my body was ready to be rested for my fight. I rested up for the next few days and fought the fight, winning a 10 round decision. I Looked as good as I ever had as a pro. Now, in the weeks after the fight, I begin hearing how this amateur light heavyweight was pushing me around, ****ing me up etc. Apparently his trainer was one of these guys that has boxers and when they had a good day in the gym they made sure everybody knew about it.
Apparently, from what I was hearing, they had all of a sudden decided to have this kid get ready to turn pro. I assume that because he did real well sparring with me that day and because he was a strong and rugged kid they figured he was pro material. So I requested that they come back to the gym and spar again. The next time we sparred I took it very seriously and I made sure to rest up the night before. The sparring started and I came out with what Cus D'Amato called bad intentions. I was very focused on doing damage and what I remember was finding a home for my right uppercut. At one point in the second round I hit this kid so hard with an uppercut that he slightly wobbled. Normally, in sparring you would ease back a bit at this point. But my competitive spirit took over and I hit him over and over with right uppercuts until he started to sag. Finally the trainer started yelling for me to stop but all that did was make me want to hit him harder and more often. And I did. Just about knocked him out standing up, only his trainer coming to the ring and holding him up stopped him from falling. Sometimes sparring can get out of hand. I like it like that though.
When I was an amateur I weighed 165 pounds and I used to spar with a 139 pounder that was particularly tough. Every time we sparred he would taunt me and say 'That's all you got ??" So this one day, he starts talking crap to me and I am hitting him harder and harder, trying to hurt him. He keeps talking and I keep hitting him harder and harder. He was one of these guys that when you hit him with a good shot he would drop his hands and say "Come on , hit me harder!" Then, all of sudden I landed a real good right hand and he kind of stiffened up a little bit. It was crazy, I saw that and I smelled blood. I started hitting him harder and harder, the trainer was yelling "Stop! Stop! But I was in a frenzy, throwing punches as fast and hard as I could. I saw that he was hurt and was beginning to fall but something took me over inside and I couldn't stop myself. I didn't stop punching until he was down and out and our coach was in the ring pulling me away.
A couple guys from the gym had to pick him up and carry him to the bathroom and pour cold water on his face and body to revive him completely. Now, you might think that caused a rift in our friendship but this is boxing and the gym. It was a vicious incident but, honestly, it had no ill effect on our friendship and to this day we are good friends. It was just something that happened in the gym, accepted between two boxers. For him, it was another lesson learned.
[Editor's Note: This is an excerpt from a planned upcoming book written by John Scully]
"Gym Wars"
By "Ice" John Scully
Vinny Paz is another guy who destroys that old fable that Philadelphia has the best gym wars. You hear all the so called boxing experts, especially the Philly fighters, repeatedly talk up the legendary 'Philly sparring sessions', like they somehow box with more intensity within the city limits of Philadelphia. That's nonsense, seriously. I have been to Vinny's Gym in Providence many time and this guy loves the hard sparring.
The first time we sparred was in 1991 and we were both getting ready for fights. I was fighting a real cagey veteran named Randy Smith and just 4 days later Vinny was boxing Gilbert Dele for the WBA Junior Middleweight title. The first time we sparred I don't think Vinny even knew who I was or had heard of me. He said we could do 4 rounds. Fighters have a way of talking to each other that only they understand. Almost always after a round, the two boxers will touch gloves. Kind of a little tap. But Vinny and I were both throwing punches so hard and fast, every time the bell would ring we would both do the same exact thing: stop quickly, as if we were slamming on the brakes, look at each other for a couple moments, then **** gloves with each other real hard.
I am sure, from the body language that he was thinking the same exact thing I was - " I wish that round didn't end." After the 4th round he was like 'oh, man, you think you can go a couple more? I was thinking "man, this is what I live for." After that day, I used to go to him very often and the sparring was always fun. Vinny was the type of guy, if you were catching him with good shots he would **** his face with his gloves and yell 'Yeah! come On! He was not a terribly hard puncher, in the truest sense. But his overhand right, like the one he caught Dana Rosenblatt with, was an attention-getter if it got through.
Sometimes you might get a guy that takes the sparring a little too seriously. There is a kid here in Connecticut that I have sparred with a few times. An amateur 201 pounder, about 23 years old or so. A local amateur kid, not a national level kid or a guy you would have ever heard of. One time we sparred at my gym in Hartford for 4 pretty much uneventful rounds. A few days later a friend of mine asked me if I sparred with this kid the other day? I said 'yes' and he said 'Yeah, because he was at my gym saying he DOMINATED you'. That kind of thing is irritating.
If I spar with a good guy and we are going at it and it is serious sparring and he says "Yeah, I did good with Ice," then I have no problem. But when some amateur kid comes in and I do him a favor by working with him for a few rounds and then he starts talking stuff about it, that really gets to you. It's as if he saying "we're on the same." Well, that is not cool. There is certain etiquette I like to follow. It is times like that when I want to say "Oh, you wanna talk about what you did? How about we get to the gym one day and go at it for 10 rounds with no headgear?" Since that day, I have sparred with this kid 4 more times. Stopped him 5 times. Three times with body shots and twice with head shots. The last time, I hit him with such a vicious double hook to the body that if he didn't go down I would have been shocked. Now, it is not any kind of notch in my belt to say I stopped this guy so bad that he lost all the air in his body and his trainer had to come in the ring and get him up on all fours so he could try to regain his composure. Stopping him these times, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean much because I am a pro and he is an amateur. He is bigger than me, a strong kid that trains well to fight. But still, stopping him like that is not a big deal. For him, it will just go under the heading of 'A Lesson learned.'
What you have to understand is, in the gyms, boxers take all aspects of the sparring very seriously. Having a guy spout off about how he did this or that to you in the gym is an open invitation to go to war every time from then on out that we spar.
There was another time that I was getting ready to fight Art Baylis at Foxwoods Casino in a 10 round fight. I was really physically worn down from all the intense training and on my last day of sparring I worked with two good amateurs, a 156-pounder and a 178-pounder. The way I was feeling that day, the 156-pounder was too fast for me and the 178 was too strong. He manhandled me and pushed me all over the ring. I didn't panic though because I knew I had been working hard and my body was ready to be rested for my fight. I rested up for the next few days and fought the fight, winning a 10 round decision. I Looked as good as I ever had as a pro. Now, in the weeks after the fight, I begin hearing how this amateur light heavyweight was pushing me around, ****ing me up etc. Apparently his trainer was one of these guys that has boxers and when they had a good day in the gym they made sure everybody knew about it.
Apparently, from what I was hearing, they had all of a sudden decided to have this kid get ready to turn pro. I assume that because he did real well sparring with me that day and because he was a strong and rugged kid they figured he was pro material. So I requested that they come back to the gym and spar again. The next time we sparred I took it very seriously and I made sure to rest up the night before. The sparring started and I came out with what Cus D'Amato called bad intentions. I was very focused on doing damage and what I remember was finding a home for my right uppercut. At one point in the second round I hit this kid so hard with an uppercut that he slightly wobbled. Normally, in sparring you would ease back a bit at this point. But my competitive spirit took over and I hit him over and over with right uppercuts until he started to sag. Finally the trainer started yelling for me to stop but all that did was make me want to hit him harder and more often. And I did. Just about knocked him out standing up, only his trainer coming to the ring and holding him up stopped him from falling. Sometimes sparring can get out of hand. I like it like that though.
When I was an amateur I weighed 165 pounds and I used to spar with a 139 pounder that was particularly tough. Every time we sparred he would taunt me and say 'That's all you got ??" So this one day, he starts talking crap to me and I am hitting him harder and harder, trying to hurt him. He keeps talking and I keep hitting him harder and harder. He was one of these guys that when you hit him with a good shot he would drop his hands and say "Come on , hit me harder!" Then, all of sudden I landed a real good right hand and he kind of stiffened up a little bit. It was crazy, I saw that and I smelled blood. I started hitting him harder and harder, the trainer was yelling "Stop! Stop! But I was in a frenzy, throwing punches as fast and hard as I could. I saw that he was hurt and was beginning to fall but something took me over inside and I couldn't stop myself. I didn't stop punching until he was down and out and our coach was in the ring pulling me away.
A couple guys from the gym had to pick him up and carry him to the bathroom and pour cold water on his face and body to revive him completely. Now, you might think that caused a rift in our friendship but this is boxing and the gym. It was a vicious incident but, honestly, it had no ill effect on our friendship and to this day we are good friends. It was just something that happened in the gym, accepted between two boxers. For him, it was another lesson learned.
[Editor's Note: This is an excerpt from a planned upcoming book written by John Scully]
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