Vitali Klitschko vs Joe Louis - Who wins?

[cupocity303]

Whose loss to Vitali? You mean Lewis's win. And basing your prognostication on wins over fighters who can't dream of stringing together the punches Louis could (best combination power puncher in Heavyweight history IMO) doesn't cut it either.

I already edited my post. Therefore I'll consider your reply out of context and invalid. Try again

[cupocity303]

You mean Lewis's win. And basing your prognostication on wins over fighters who can't dream of stringing together the punches Louis could (best combination power puncher in Heavyweight history IMO) doesn't cut it either.

He couldn't throw a combination on Vitali. It's physically impossible. He'd be lucky to throw one punch at at a time, and land one looping punch here and there. Basing your fallacious argument on how well he did against guys of similar height, who didn't fight like tall men and winged their punches from the waist, is what's not cutting it.

Louis would have to reach to land punches. Be out of position to try and land punches on Vitali. I have seen his fights, his basic arsenal of punches doesn't match what would be in front of him, named Vitali.

You can critique Vitali's past losses/mistakes all you want, but for every mistake Vitali has made in the ring in between all that dominance, I can point to two mistakes that Louis has made. Unless the Max Schmelling loss (and there were other bad performances before the comeback Marciano loss) doesn't count OR fit into your narrative.

[crold1]

He couldn't throw a combination on Vitali. It's physically impossible. He'd be lucky to throw one punch at at a time, and land one looping punch here and there. Basing your fallacious argument on how well he did against guys of similar height, who didn't fight like tall men, is what's not cutting it.

Louis would have to reach to land punches. Be out of position to try and land punches on Vitali. I have seen his fights, his basic arsenal of punches doesn't match what would be in front of him, named Vitali.

You can critique Vitali's past losses/mistakes all you want, but for every mistake Vitali has made in the ring in between all that dominance, I can point to two mistakes that Louis has made. Unless the Max Schmelling loss (and there were other bad performances before the comeback Marciano loss) doesn't count OR fit into your narrative.

I disagree. Louis wouldn't have near the trouble landing you think. His handspeed would allow him to get places men like Peter couldn't dream and he'd make Vitali miss more than Vitali is used to. One handed, telegraphing Corrie Sanders landed and almost dropped him, made it a good fight before his lack conditioning and the incoming swamped him. Lewis, fat and slow, didn't struggle to land. They were taller, but technically inferior to Louis. Louis would hit Vitali more than anyone he's ever seen.

[cupocity303]

I disagree. Louis wouldn't have near the trouble landing you think. His handspeed would allow him to get places men like Peter couldn't dream and he'd make Vitali miss more than Vitali is used to. One handed, telegraphing Corrie Sanders landed and almost dropped him, made it a good fight before his lack conditioning and the incoming swamped him. Lewis, fat and slow, didn't struggle to land. They were taller, but technically inferior to Louis. Louis would hit Vitali more than anyone he's ever seen.

Again, for every mistake you point out in Vitali's career, I can name twice as many in Louis', which are much more relevant in determining who would win in a head to head matchup. Notice how you didn't address the Schmelling loss, conveniently, because it didn't fit your narrative. Like Louis has been flawless or something.

He got knocked out of the ring against Buddy Bear, who wings his punches from the waist and doesn't even fight tall. He got knocked out once, and he got knocked DOWN in fights after that. If it was Vitali instead of Buddy Baer, he would've never came back to win that fight. Two can play that game.

[Brockton Lip]

Baseless Ad-Hominem's. I'm mildly curious why you picked out that particular post to say this, but it doesn't matter. If you have something of relevance to say, say it.

If not, you keep it moving. Others can make up their own mind whether to respond or not.

I hate to do this again but prime Samuel Peter or Brewster >>> Max Baer. I think both guys proved their chins vs Wlad, and both did well in the first fights. Max's power to kill men may have something to do with the lack of wrapping hands in those days, and smaller gloves.

Okay I'll take this one since I'm bored and then have you ignore it and continue.

How in the world is Sam Peter or Brewster better than Max Baer? You either know little of Baer or have to be trolling. I see no way, at all, that either of those men beat Baer.

Talking about chins? Baer by far had one of the best chins ever. He withstood punch after punch from some of the hardest hitters ever. And certainly harder hitting than Peter or Brewster (and more skilled). Joe Louis was even teeing off on Baer and was unable to knock him out cold as he did to nearly everyone else. Baer went down and quit (pretty much what Morales did against Pac in their 3rd fight). If you really care though, just google his punch resistance as I imagine you wont take my word for it.

Power? Ring Magazine ranks Max Baer as #22 for the best punchers ever. Peter and Brewster are not on the list. Smaller gloves did not matter. The video below talks about mma gloves (similar size to boxing gloves from years ago) vs current boxing gloves.


And if you still dont want to believe me and dont want to look it up for yourself, then you pretty much have to agree that Baer has either an incredible chin or is one of the best punchers ever. If you still believe the smaller gloves were the reason he scored the KO's then you have to reaize that he took hard shots from those same smaller gloves which proves he has an iron chin.

[cupocity303]

Okay I'll take this one since I'm bored and then have you ignore it and continue.

How in the world is Sam Peter or Brewster better than Max Baer? You either know little of Baer or have to be trolling. I see no way, at all, that either of those men beat Baer.

It's simple. Ability wise, he has nothing that these two guys don't. Good enough?

I didn't see you go into a more specific explanation. Moving on.

Talking about chins? Baer by far had one of the best chins ever. He withstood punch after punch from some of the hardest hitters ever. And certainly harder hitting than Peter or Brewster (and more skilled).

Why are you lumping in punching power with punch resistance? I said that Peter and Brewster showed that they have good chin by taking some of the best shots from Wladimir, and still kept fighting, unlike others. Brewster went down and came back to win. And Peter didn't go down at all in their first fight.

Brewster & Peter punches from a 250lb Wlad >>> Baer taking punches from Joe Louis.

Joe Louis was even teeing off on Baer and was unable to knock him out cold as he did to nearly everyone else. Baer went down and quit (pretty much what Morales did against Pac in their 3rd fight). If you really care though, just google his punch resistance as I imagine you wont take my word for it.

As I said above. It's more impressive to be still standing after taking shots from Wlad, then it is from Joe Louis or anyone else.

Power? Ring Magazine ranks Max Baer as #22 for the best punchers ever. Peter and Brewster are not on the list. Smaller gloves did not matter. The video below talks about mma gloves (similar size to boxing gloves from years ago) vs current boxing gloves.

This is irrelevant jargon. I was responding in context to Baer killing fighters in the ring. And that there are multiple factors involved in fighters getting killed back in those days, and why not as many get killed in today's time. Gloves played a factor, safety rules, lack of TKO stoppages etc,. No need to post videos of MMA gloves.

And if you still dont want to believe me and dont want to look it up for yourself, then you pretty much have to agree that Baer has either an incredible chin or is one of the best punchers ever.

He is neither/or, based on what I said at the top.

And I don't need to look up anything, I have seen plenty of Max Baer fights to make up my own mind. Your condescending little attempt may work with someone else but not with me.

If you still believe the smaller gloves were the reason he scored the KO's then you have to reaize that he took hard shots from those same smaller gloves which proves he has an iron chin.

And nobody said that he had a glass chin. He does have a hard chin.

And nobody said that he is a pillow puncher, he is a hard puncher. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that smaller gloves with less padding, benefited hard punchers. And nobody was arguing his knockouts, but him killing two opponents in the ring (which some used to make him seem more menacing than he really is), which could've been due to multiple factors ( smaller gloves, no neutral corner during knockdowns, ref not stopping fights like they do today).


In conclusion, Max Baer is not the hardest puncher nor has he the hardest chin. And there is nothing in his skill set that suggest that he is much better than either Brewster or Peter.

[cupocity303]

I like how you tried to cram in as much stuff into your post as possible, to try and muddle the argument, making it difficult to respond. Including making up your own arguments and arguing against them, as if I had said it. Comprehension isn't your best asset.

And your argumentative skills are C level at best.

[Superflo777]

This is more historical nonsense which has nothing to do with anything.

I hate to do this again but prime Samuel Peter or Brewster >>> Max Baer. I think both guys proved their chins vs Wlad, and both did well in the first fights. Max's power to kill men may have something to do with the lack of wrapping hands in those days, and smaller gloves.

And spare us the Undisputed crap. Times were simpler back then. You beat one guy, and you win the whole thing. It's a fallacious standard you have set on Vitali, that because he missed his first and ONLY opportunity to win the Undisputed Title, and the guy with the Undisputed Title retired, spreading all the vacant belts around as a result, therefore somehow Vitali failed by never winning a Undisputed Title. Even though he won the WBC and reclaimed the WBC again after 4 years of retirement.

It's fallacious and dishonest. You cry and complain at the lack of respect ATG's are getting, but look at your girlish ways of arguing your points, disrespecting and undermining Vitali's career because of one fight that he lost.

Again nothing but intelligent, objective and perfectly written posts from you. You disarm every hater with ease using simply logical and mature argumentation. My deepest respect to you, sir.

[JAB5239]

NO HE DOES NOT.

The only thing these two have in common is same size.

This guy hunched down and came forward with his head. He was easy to hit with the first attempt at throwing a punch.

Vitali isn't.

My friend, I've already shown video's of both that PROVE their styles were similar. Im not saying Carnera was better, my point is Louis was able to adjust to it. I don't think this is walk over fight or a non dangerous one for Louis either, but he has proven he is capable of beating much bigger fighters. Vitaly has never proven he could beat a fighter as skilled or who hit as hard as Louis.

[JAB5239]

Would you also want a list of how many times I've completely owned you in this thread? I don't make lists because morons ask me to. Havn't you figured that out yet genius? Honestly I'm kinda embarrassed for myself for continuing to write you back. Maybe I should ignore your stupidity as well.

Oh, and I'll give you every point I have on here if you can produce a real quote of me ever saying Haggler was an inside fighter, etc. etc..
Hence, me saying you have mistaken me for somebody else, stupid.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on you looking into the reading comprehension classes. You need it severely.

In all honesty, I've never seen you "own" a single person on this forum. And that is very telling considering some of the idiots who post here.