Comments Thread For: Mark Johnson Rips Pacquiao, Talks Khan-Peterson, More

[LeadUppercut]

you cant be serious. You cant. Pacquiao has multiple good wins over multiple weight classes, including Barrerax2, Cotto, Clottey, Sasakul, Ledwaba, Marquez, Hatton, Diaz, and Mosley. And while its true that his recent competition has been a little underwhelming, the Mosley he beat is was not much worse than the one Mayweather beat.

I dont mind having Mayweather #1 p4p, but Pacquiao not p4p at all? ludicrous.

It is about who you fought, but more importantly, when you fought them..... and nothing else.

So you can forget about old faded Barrera, old faded drained Morales, faded drained Cotto, old faded Mosley, old faded Hoya..... and as far as the other guys you mentioned..... GTFOH..... I shoulda stopped reading at Clottey, but completely wrote you off as a fanboy when you mentioned Diaz. The losses to Marquez dont count either.

You sinned against boxing when you insinuated that Pac should be given as much credit as Mayweather for beating Mosley.

GTFOH DUDE !!

Pac BLATANTLY ducked Mosley TWICE back when Shane was ranked the #1 welter and widely regarded as a threat. He only fought Shane AFTER it became plainly obvious that Mosley could no longer pull the trigger.

You regarding that blatant cherry-pick as an act of greatness is FKN INSANE.

WHAT HAS HE DONE THAT IS GREAT ?

All you covered was his supposed " greatness ", nothing you mentioned qualifies Manny as a P4P fighter.

He has blatantly avoided anyone who posed a threat.

Manny has never beaten a top lightweight, he did not fight any of the top jww's, he has never fought a welter ranked higher than 4, and he would not fight a genuine jmw despite winning a title there.

Despite stating that " I will fight anyone at 150 " he will not go anywhere near Sergio Martinez. The guy will not dare fight a live dog, even if they are old and will be disadvantaged on the scales, and yet for the career-featherweight Marquez Pac "conceded" a catchweight that he could not even make himself.

That is P4P pu55y right there.

Disgraceful.

Manny has tip-toed through the tulips and compiled a resume consisting of nothing but old men, faded champions, and bums..... he will not fight anyone who is on top of their game, and has made an art-form out of manipulating advantages and winning on the scales..... mostly against slow, come-forward, made-to-order opponents.

Manny aint in my top 10 P4P, thats for sure, and he will never be considered until he steps up and fights a live dog. Oh but Klitschko, blah, blah..... RUBBISH !! Wlad may not have any career-defining fights, but he has fought EVERYONE, with the possible exception of the Sanders rematch..... and he aint a P4P fighter either.

Pacquiao has blatantly ducked everyone who poses a threat.

* Could Pac have beaten Zahir Raheem, cuz he didnt want none?

* Could Pac have beaten Soto, because he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten Guzman, because he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten Campbell, because he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten JMM in a rematch at 130, cuz he didnt want none?

* Could Pac have beaten a top lightweight, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a top jww, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a prime Hoya, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten Hoya at 154, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a prime Cotto, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten Cotto at 147, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a prime Margarito, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten Margarito at 154, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten Margarito with 10oz gloves, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a Clottey that fought back, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a genuine jmw, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a prime Mosley, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac have beaten a past-prime Mosley when he first had the chance back when Shane was ranked the #1 welter, cuz he didnt want none?

* Could Pac have beaten Ortiz (a guy who laid hands on him in sparring - Roach named that session as "the best sparring ever", a guy who beat a fighter who Arum admitted was on Pac's own shortlist, and a guy who was ranked higher than any welter Pac has ever fought), cuz he didnt want none?

* Could Pac beat JMM now at 140 (Pac's best weight, according to Manny), cuz he will not allow that to happen, 145lbs (a weight that Manny has never made himself ) was the deal-breaker? *** me, that is absurd.

* Could Pac have beaten Martinez for that vacant WBC title, cuz he didnt?

* Could Pac beat Martinez at 150 now ("I will fight anyone at 150" ~ Manny Pacquiao), cuz he dont want none? Pac? Manny? Where'd that guy go?

* Could Pac beat Mayweather, cuz he hasnt?

* Could Pac pass Olympic Style Drug Testing, cuz he dont want none?

Jeez dude, that is one helluva shopping list full of unanswered questions about a supposedly great fighter

I mean, that list is not complete either, **** we can go right back to fly, could Pac have beaten Too Sharp? Why didnt that fight happen, just like at lw, jww, and welter?

WTF ?

Surely that cant be right, because Pacquiao certainly had not achieved traditional greatness before the highly controversial win/loss to Marquez?

Many fighters achieved greatness by fighting under the old divisional system, back when there was only one champion, using same day weigh-in's, and they did it by fighting as the smaller man..... Pacquiao has certainly never done anything like that.

It is inconceivable that a truly great fighter could have a list of unanswered questions hanging over his head that happens to be longer than his list of achievements, and P4P criteria requires that you could beat a live opponent, your same size, without manipulating advantages..... and yet Pacquiao tried to setup the lightweight Marquez, just like he setup Cotto, and he still lost.

Pac is a terrific fighter, but there have been thousands of terrific fighters..... there is nothing great about him, and he is not a P4P fighter.

A P4P champ could beat anyone regardless of style, Pac will not even try.

[LeadUppercut]

To reiterate, this is the question...........

I challenge you to tell me what comprises a P4P fighter, and then apply that criteria to Pacquiao.

I CHALLENGE YOU !!

[jrosales13]

LOL @ beating the likes of Raheem, Campbell, Guzman, Soto is the difference between being great and not being great....

If the case of not being great is a full shopping list of an unanswered questions then no fighter in the last 10 years can be considered great.

[jrosales13]

To reiterate, this is the question...........

I challenge you to tell me what comprises a P4P fighter, and then apply that criteria to Pacquiao.

I CHALLENGE YOU !!

Your opinion, that's what.

Is a mythical opinion based OPINION ranking...It's fantasy, it's make believe....There is no such thing as a "REAL P4P" list.

[LeadUppercut]

To reiterate, this is the question...........

I challenge you to tell me what comprises a P4P fighter, and then apply that criteria to Pacquiao.

I CHALLENGE YOU !!

I also challenge any of the well-respected scribes who write articles for boxingscene to do the same.

Define P4P criteria, and then tell me how that applies to Pacquiao.

Then list his " great " achievements for me.

NOTE: a great achievment is NOT something that a number of other fighters could also have achieved......

e.g. many fighters could have beaten the faded, damaged, drained, 145lb Cotto that Manny fought..... any of the top welters would have beaten that version of Cotto, there was nothing significant about that "win"...... and that is Manny's best win since the highly controversial win/loss against Marquez in 2008..... SO WHY THE *** IS HE LISTED AS A P4P FIGHTER?

[LeadUppercut]

Your opinion, that's what.

Is a mythical opinion based OPINION ranking...It's fantasy, it's make believe....There is no such thing as a "REAL P4P" list.

Rubbish, every list has criteria for inclusion.

And if you cannot tell me, then your " opinion " is worthless.

[PlayerKiller]

Too Sharp gets an entry in my sig for a week-or-so

Why the hell is Pacquiao ranked as a P4P fighter ?

Can one of you pac-whores please specify P4P criteria, and then tell me how it applies to Manny?

I challenge you to tell me what comprises a P4P fighter, and then apply that criteria to Pac. In fact, you clowns are as much a hypejob as Pac if you cant.

Give me your top ten p4p list.

[Steak]

oh gosh what a disgusting wall of text. And if you learned to read I didnt even mention DLH or Morales. Barrera from the first fight was near prime and an outstanding win. Even in the rematch Barrera was one of the best fighters at 130lbs, and arguably beat Marquez in the match right beforehand. While Cotto was not quite prime, he still obviously was one the best fighters at 147lbs, and has still gone on to be one of the best at 154lbs: Its a damn good win. Im not a fan of Clottey, but he was one of the best fighters at 147lbs, and while its not a legendary win, its legitimate and worth mentioning. Same with David Diaz, who isnt that great but did legitimately beat Jose Santa Cruz, who definitely was badly robbed agaisnt Casamayor.

and wake up: Mosley was not much worse agaisnt Mayweather. Mosley showed how old he was against Mora, and that wasnt long after the Mayweather fight at all. not to mention he was coming off a very long layoff. It wasnt really a stand out win for either of them: just one they took to assert their high ranking at Welterweight.

Pacquiao's wins over Barrera, Sasakul, Ledwaba, Cotto, and Hatton made him the best fighter in those divsions. and thats without counting his secondary wins, and assuming he lost all the Marquez fights, which is highly up for debate. hes already p4p with just those wins right there. especially considering how shallow boxing is today anyway.

and Cotto was considered #2 in the division when Pacquiao beat him, numbskull. Diaz was also in the top ten, but it wasnt that good of a win really.

[LeadUppercut]

LOL @ beating the likes of Raheem, Campbell, Guzman, Soto is the difference between being great and not being great....

If the case of not being great is a full shopping list of an unanswered questions then no fighter in the last 10 years can be considered great.

Nobody said it was, or even attempted to insinuate that.

Comprehension fail.

Raheem, Campbell, Guzman, Soto, are just SOME of the MANY fighters that Pacquiao "conveniently" missed. It is funny that you insist that.....
1.) Pac is great
2.) beating the guys above is not great
3.) and yet I doubt that Pac could have beaten Guzman at 130

Styles make fights, and Trampler/Roach are much smarter than you or I when it comes to boxing.

[jrosales13]

Rubbish, every list has criteria for inclusion.

And if you cannot tell me, then your " opinion " is worthless.

P4P is a mythical based opinion...It's make believe...What are you talking about? It's all your opinion. If you have Pac #1 or Pac not at all...Then that's fine...You not either right or wrong. Because, it's your opinion. You can have your own set of criteria and the next guy can have his own.

If I say that P4P is that you have to be an elite fighter in 3 or more weight-classes...Then how can Pac not be in my P4P? But, if you have a different criteria where you come up with something then that's fine. Because, again there is no "True P4P" list. There's no such thing.