Were Ali's fights against Sonny Liston rigged?

[Guest]

Don't get me wrong, I love Ali to bits - he's my favourite boxer of all tahms. Of all tahms.

But there's something about the Liston fights that looks so... staged.


Liston's wife recently went on record as saying Sonny wasn't going to get unnecessarily hurt during the rematch, and implied he stayed down - though this doesn't rule out the punch putting him there was genuine. Then there's the rumours that Sonny claimed he was going to be killed by Ali's religious organisation if he didn't take a "fall" in the first. So what do we think?

[Mr. Ryan]

No, no they weren't. Liston simply lacked heart.

[bpapa420]

I cant see the second fight not being rigged.

[Boxerdog]

Many people are scared ****less of insane folks. Clay/Ali knew this to be true of Sonny and exploited it.
The "phantom punch" was a blow that Sonny could have gotten up from but he chose not to. He was deathly afraid of this "crazy man" standing over him.

The crap about a "mob" fix is just that..crap. The odds weren't long enough for organized crime to take an interest. The profit margin just wasn't there.

[Mr. Ryan]

The idea that Liston was scared was also garbage. Liston simply couldn't get on the inside and do damage. For a fight that occurred in the 60's, it has great video quality.

[bpapa420]

Then how do you explain being ko'd in the first round?

Many people are scared ****less of insane folks. Clay/Ali knew this to be true of Sonny and exploited it.
The "phantom punch" was a blow that Sonny could have gotten up from but he chose not to. He was deathly afraid of this "crazy man" standing over him.

The crap about a "mob" fix is just that..crap. The odds weren't long enough for organized crime to take an interest. The profit margin just wasn't there.

Thats exactley what the mob wants you to think, that there is no interest. Also why does it have to be the mob? Maybee it was the promoters

[Boxerdog]

Hold on Asian S. !!
In one breath you say Liston lacked heart and in the next that he wasn't scared. Which is it??
And how in the hell would a 17 or 18 year old kid know that much about it anyway??

[Boxerdog]

Thats exactley what the mob wants you to think, that there is no interest. Also why does it have to be the mob? Maybee it was the promoters

Maybe it was a guy up on the grassy knoll and maybe the moon landing was shot in Arizona!!

[Mr. Ryan]

Hold on Asian S. !!
In one breath you say Liston lacked heart and in the next that he wasn't scared. Which is it??
And how in the hell would a 17 or 18 year old kid know that much about it anyway??

You see, this is something that I find very amusing. When old fogies like you question my knowledge because of my youth. I have amassed in my 17 years so much boxing knowledge, it would make Emanuel Steward look incompetent. I have a fight collection nearing 1,000 fights, and own just about every boxing documentary ever made. I also have a number of boxing books and other publications. I know a whole lot about boxing. Liston was the aggressor and never stopped coming forward through out the fight, a man afraid would stay on the outside and run away from Ali. Liston lacked heart because he quit in the corner with a "broken shoulder." He lacked the mentality of a champion.

[Boxerdog]

Son, you are so full of **** your eyes are brown.