Why didn't Pacquiao follow Roach's instructions inbetween rounds??

[Nuurzhaelan]

Your analysis is very good. I do not know what is going on with Manny, but he used to follow Roach's advice very well. Now he seems to be doing his own thing, as though he believes that he has evolved beyond the need for advice or, more likely, he is very distracted. This is not to discount Marquez's ability as a boxer/counter puncher. If Manny had followed Roach's advice Marquez might have adjusted, but he probably would have made a clearer argument for his win.

I thought the fight was very even and the win could have gone either way. I do feel, though, that Marquez won the moral victory for two reasons: A) he made a convincing case for his win via his performance and B) part of that performance was slowing Manny down and making him appear ordinary.

[louvega]

My question would be: why is Buboy giving anybody boxing instructions, specially when you have Roach in that same corner? I understand he is Manny's best friend and has been 'around boxing' for years, but Manny's corner reminded me of Berto's during the Ortiz fight: everybody and their mothers giving boxing instructions at the same time. The only fight I've seen Buboy cornering without Roach, his fighter lost badly.

[[ DUBBZZ ]]

Great observation on the fight and the post fight interview. Lol! Max was fighting temptation throughout the whole conversation.

Tbh, I think Pac and Roach made a mistake by trying to outbox JMM. Alot of credit to JMM for not falling into the same trap as the prior 2 fights (getting into a fire-fight with Pac).

He maintained his composure and fought his fight.

Still a close fight imo and decision could've gone either way (depending on what the judges were looking for).

K

[SWEETSCIENCE100]

Because Roach didnt give any instrutions to follow. Why so many think hes such a general is beyond me. He has no strategic plan, ever. Also Pacquiao is one dimentional, he can't change or addapt and overcome. His skill is that of an averge boxer. Stand and trade and Pacquiao will hurt you. Box him and its an easy fight. It was so funny watching him jump around in the ring with his ****** moves, head bouncing all around, looking like mMartin lawrence in costume. PACQUIAO IS A JOKE! THE WORLD KNOWS NOW!! LOL LOL

[Lorily]

The common consenses seems to be that Pacquiao didn't listen to Roach because, he either couldn't (because JMM is too skilled), wouldn't (wants to do it his way) or simply won't (too stubborn, can't change now). All good points, I think some or maybe all of them could be applied to the situation. I know a few people said that if Manny would have circled to his right that JMM would have simply adjusted and would've had the same outcome. I tend to disagree to a certain extent, I think if Pac would have started going to his right somewhere in the middle rounds that it would have had Juan thrown off enough for this fight. I agree Juan would learn to adjust, but not until another fight where he could study it and train to do so (IMO). As I said before, the few times that Pac threw a combo then ducked out to his right, he was making Juan miss (sometimes wildly) and totally off balance when he tried to go catch him. Juan had a wide stance with his left foot way out front, for him to quickly pivot to his own left from that stance to catch Pac would have him completely off balance. I'm sure Juan had his left foot so far out front so he could win the battle of the southpaw and have his lead foot on the outside, but wouldn't a stance that wide make it harder for him to readjust his footwork to chase Pac to his own left as quickly as he was to his own right? I could be wrong, of course this is just my opinion from what I observed from the fight. I've never been a Professional fighter though. It could be that it was JMM's lead foot being so far out front was what prevented Pac from being comfortable going to his right? Or, Pac is just too set in his ways? Or that Pac simply can't change (or won't) this late in his career? Like I stated earlier - couldn't, wouldn't or won't?

Lorily is smart but bias. You will see through her over time. She has subtle agenda's.

As for Manny not moving to his right, he hasn't listened to Roach for a while. Roach Said is snidely your friend? Why tap gloves. He didn't tell PAC to hang on the ropes vs Cotto. Roach doesn't have that sincere voice and PAC doesn't look a him in that corner the same way anymore.

PAC first needs sparring partners that actually mimic styles of fighters. Rodela and all of them used last weRe extremely poor.

Pray tell.... what exactly are my "subtle agenda's"??? I've been posting here for almost 2 years, talking about boxing - so I don't see your point.

But hey, thanks for joining in on the conversation. I don't think Pac has really listened to Roach in some time. And you're right about Pacs sparring partners. Using your "regular" sparring partners fight after fight isn't exactly mirroring the current opponent at hand.

[Tamis!]

Good analysis mam.

And LOL at the haters.

Pac's tentativeness probably was the key for him not following the gameplan, we won't know if he did it on purpose to not heed to Roach's advise or he was too much careful of JMM.

[the mesiah]

Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything.

Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that?

In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV....

After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that.

After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.")

And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got ****ed LOL.

Hey ms. L, great first thread..as far as moving to the left and moving right and what not..as much as they were talkin bout pac's right hand this and right that and his "new weapon" PAC knows and EVERYONE knows the bread and butter for pac is the left hand since pac,his team and everyone wanted to see a KO.try this ,I don't know if u r left Handed or right handed, but if u right handed, move to ur right and see how much more in rythym u get to land that KO right as oppose when u move to the left to land ur right handed punch.it's lot more motion involved especially if u LOOKIN for the KO.if ur left handed try it but vice versa.u get more strength from that back foot to land ur KO punch.

[Lorily]

Hey ms. L, great first thread..as far as moving to the left and moving right and what not..as much as they were talkin bout pac's right hand this and right that and his "new weapon" PAC knows and EVERYONE knows the bread and butter for pac is the left hand since pac,his team and everyone wanted to see a KO.try this ,I don't know if u r left Handed or right handed, but if u right handed, move to ur right and see how much more in rythym u get to land that KO right as oppose when u move to the left to land ur right handed punch.it's lot more motion involved especially if u LOOKIN for the KO.if ur left handed try it but vice versa.u get more strength from that back foot to land ur KO punch.proof is in the pudding as shown in the 1st 2 fights.

Good point Al, very good point. So, it would be safe to assume then that Pac was more concerned with trying to hit JMM with a K.O. punch then trying to avoid Juans counter punches. (I know it sounds obvious but you'd think Pac would realize that the plan wasn't working because every punch he threw was being answered back by JMM twofold)

[Check_hooks]

Pac won 10 rounds to 2. If your very generous than 8 rounds o 4 like Lederman gave him.

Pac was doing just fine, with or without roach.

[JibbaJabber]

becasue he is a bum... and when you get into trouble you revert back to what you know best.. once a bum always a bum.. that's why