Hopkins vs. Dawson post fight discussion - Please do not make new threads about this.

[Chaos]

see my post above. you're not a doctor and you're talking about two different injuries. Hopkins doesn't have a dislocated shoulder. Read about it:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=15

I don't need to be a doctor to know that it wasn't popped out during the post fight.

[Tobi.G]

I dont know what to believe, i just dont know if faked or not. What i do know though is that it shouldnt be called a TKO but a no contest.
I understand guys like Toney, guys that dont like Bernard, that he faked and i also understand the others who said it was real. They need to do it again. But now Hopkins needs recovery and rehab. Im verry verry disapointed, and Dawsons post fight interview was a big fail. Hes actually not interested in a rematch cause he knows it will propably never be so easy again to "beat" Bernard Hopkins. Im honest, i believe the injury. Hopkins would have beaten Dawson and Dawson already knew it in the second round thats why he became desperate and fouled Hopkins. Dawson aint ****!

[vacon04]

**** it I'll just answer now. Let's say for the sake of argument it popped out and went back in on its own, which happens all the time. Normally in this situation you can continue no problem, there will be some pain but nothing a grown man can't handle. Now if you go see a doctors hours later and say I fell on my shoulder and felt something slip but then it went back in, a doctor wouldn't be lying and risking his reputation by saying the patient popped something. He obviously hasn't had an mri to see if something's really wrong, the doctor is just going by what you tell him. Even an xray won't show that you popped your shoulder hours ago if it went back in.
Now if you want to say that he fell and it popped out and stayed out, then the problem is no one popped it back in as far as the coverage showed, and there's NO WAY IN HELL they would leave a guy with a popped shoulder to do an interview or even wait for the decision. They would fix it on the spot. Also the pain of having a joint pop is only really present while it's OUT, which is why I asked if it's happened to you before, because then you'd know there's no way it was popped during the post fight in the ring, and if it went back in on its own you would know that the pain isn't so bad as to prevent you from continuing.

I remember some time ago I was playing soccer, and at some moment of the match a guy tripped me and I fell and the guy fell on top of my elbow. I still remember that I heard how it made a cracking sound, and when I naturally moved my arm again it cracked again. It turns out that my elbow had dislocated and popped in again on its own. I tried to continue playing (yeah, soccer, you don't have to use the arms) and didn't pay attention to the pain. However, a few minutes after (2 or 3) I started to feel a strong pain, and when I took a look at my elbow it was really swollen so I had to go out of the match. I went to the ER and received an injection for the pain and the inflammation and in a few days I was OK again.

Now, pain is present even after the dislocation occurs, and yeah it may be tolerable or it may be not, the shoulder is the most complex articulation of the body, and sometimes injuries like a dislocated shoulder generate secondary injuries in adjacent ligaments, so yeah a dislocated shoulder, even if it popped out and got in instantly, is an injury that can prevent a guy from continuing, especially in a sport such as boxing where you place a lot of stress and effort on the joints of the arms.

[ИATAS]

I don't need to be a doctor to know that it wasn't popped out during the post fight.

lol man, just because you've had a shoulder injury doesnt mean you know what hopkins injury was like, especially being that it was a totally different injury than yours.

[Chaos]

You're wasting keystrokes. I'm not getting baited into this nonsense. Go read Natas' post.

Of course you won't reply cause either it popped back in on its own and he could've continued, or he was faking. The only thing that's not possible is that it dislocated and stayed out and he just stood around for 20 mins with ice waiting to do an interview rather than get it popped back in.

[Chaos]

I remember some time ago I was playing soccer, and at some moment of the match a guy tripped me and I fell and the guy fell on top of my elbow. I still remember that I heard how it made a cracking sound, and when I naturally moved my arm again it cracked again. It turns out that my elbow had dislocated and popped in again on its own. I tried to continue playing (yeah, soccer, you don't have to use the arms) and didn't pay attention to the pain. However, a few minutes after (2 or 3) I started to feel a strong pain, and when I took a look at my elbow it was really swollen so I had to go out of the match. I went to the ER and received an injection for the pain and the inflammation and in a few days I was OK again.

Now, pain is present even after the dislocation occurs, and yeah it may be tolerable or it may be not, the shoulder is the most complex articulation of the body, and sometimes injuries like a dislocated shoulder generate secondary injuries in adjacent ligaments, so yeah a dislocated shoulder, even if it popped out and got in instantly, is an injury that can prevent a guy from continuing, especially in a sport such as boxing where you place a lot of stress and effort on the joints of the arms.

So if you know what a dislocation feels like then you can agree that it must have gone back in because there's no way that he'd be standing around for 20-30 mins rather than get it fixed. I've had it both ways, where it goes in and out and where it stays out. The pain when it stays out is the same as the pain when it goes in and out, except it lasts the whole time until it's put back in.

[Evil Abed]

I hope they catch the moment on tape when they have to take his title away because its made a no-contest.

Priceless.

[vacon04]

So if you know what a dislocation feels like then you can agree that it must have gone back in because there's no way that he'd be standing around for 20-30 mins rather than get it fixed. I've had it both ways, where it goes in and out and where it stays out. The pain when it stays out is the same as the pain when it goes in and out, except it lasts the whole time until it's put back in.

Of course I agree that it went back in, there's no doubt about that, what I'm saying is that every injury is different and at least in my case it was painful even after my elbow went in again. Now, was it an excruciating pain? No it wasn't, at least not for me, but again IDK what Hopkins felt at that moment and when I had my injury I wasn't boxing.

I also had another dislocation, actually my thumb popped out while playing volleyball and I had to go to the doctor to get my thumb in place again since I wasn't sure of what to do at that moment. It took me about 30 minutes to get to the ER and the pain wasn't so bad either, but it still got swollen and everything, so even after the doctor fixed it I wasn't able to use my finger for a couple of days because it still felt a little weird. Actually, even years after that happened, if I receive a hard shot from a soccer ball or anything at my thumb, it get's swollen pretty fast and hurts for a couple of hours.

[ddeg10]

It's hard to say what really happened from the replay. If you ask me Bernard was looking to dramatize it a little bit, but Dawson was a bit too rough and it didn't look good. They are both wrong and as a result it should be a No Contest with an immediate rematch ordered.

From what we did see of the fight, Dawson was fighting at Bernard's pace and it was looking to me to be a mirror image of Hopkins-Pascal. It wasn't looking to be an easy night for Dawson... Hopkins was already giving him trouble and made Dawson fight his fight.

[Chaos]

Of course I agree that it went back in, there's no doubt about that, what I'm saying is that every injury is different and at least in my case it was painful even after my elbow went in again. Now, was it an excruciating pain? No it wasn't, at least not for me, but again IDK what Hopkins felt at that moment and when I had my injury I wasn't boxing.

I also had another dislocation, actually my thumb popped out while playing volleyball and I had to go to the doctor to get my thumb in place again since I wasn't sure of what to do at that moment. It took me about 30 minutes to get to the ER and the pain wasn't so bad either, but it still got swollen and everything, so even after the doctor fixed it I wasn't able to use my finger for a couple of days because it still felt a little weird. Actually, even years after that happened, if I receive a hard shot from a soccer ball or anything at my thumb, it get's swollen pretty fast and hurts for a couple of hours.

Finger breaks and dislocations are actually rather bearable compared to other parts of the body like knee/elbow/shoulder. The annoying thing for me at least is that hand related injuries seem to take longer to fully heal i.e. they won't hurt as much but you'll be uncomfortable for a long time. I personally don't think it even went out and in because he didn't fall hard or awkward and a Doctor will base their diagnosis of something like that based on what you tell them. An xray won't show a dislocation that happened if it's already popped back in. If Hopkins didn't have a history of faking injury I might give him the benefit of the doubt but unfortunately his reputation precedes him. The sad thing is I have much more reason to be a Hopkins fan than most of the people on this board, but I can't stand his cheating. The only thing I respect about him is that he's always in shape and looks after himself between fights, like Floyd or Hagler back in the day.