Wlad's ''ATG Punching Power'' - Stats break down....

[JAB5239]

Sorry, but Wlad fight the way he does because he is now afraid to go for it Since the Sanders fight. Considering his susceptibility to being hurt its absolutely the smartest thing he could do. But considering he almost always has the advantages in size, strength, speed, skills and power it doesn't endear him to many fans such as myself. In my opinion there is no excuse for him not going after the knockout with both Ibragimov and Haye, and choosing to wear down much lesser talents like Rahman, Peter and Thompson instead of using skill and precision combinations to take them out much sooner. He simply lacks confidence in his own ability to absorb hard punches so he plays it the safest way possible. And the part that gets me...I totally believe he has the ability to destroy most of his opponents early. You may think Im just hating on him, but that isn't the case at all, it's a logical and factual assessment. The only thing I dislike about Wlad is the way he fights and his (not saying you) ridiculous nuthuggers.

Total ownage of the fool... apparently the Klitschkos are not "exciting" enough for them because they KO more than 85% of their opponents but they do it in later rounds. I guess maybe they should watch toughman contests with two bums wildly swinging at each other with no skill at all. If you don't like to watch a truly masterful display of boxing skills, stop watching boxing. Then again, same fools love Mayweather's hit and run tactics... hmmm... wonder why?

How about you respond to the above post before claiming "ownage" of anyone. Seems nobody wants to argue against theses facts or the ones I posted to FoolyCooly.

[Exocet]

Jab, no-one is arguing with the points in your post. Wlad is cautious, everyone agrees with that. It can be frustrating to watch because people want to see him use the power he possesses, again anyone would agree with that.

I think the original point of the thread was trying to argue that Wlad does not have true power, because most of his KO's come in the later rounds. Which is borderline ******ed to be honest.

Just because he doesn't throw bombs until he is confident his opponent is worn down enough, has no bearing on how much power he actually has. The opening post in this thread is completely irrelevant to me. When your knockouts occur concerns only styles, if you were to compare Wlad and Tyson for instance.

[Barry Halls]

yeah this is just a manifestation of styles. No one except for the lone ****** alá domination would argue that Wlad is NOT safety first.

I don't think the data (or statistics if you will) presented in the OP is relevant AT ALL when trying to prove or disprove punching power.

Even if we do as i suggested earlier in this thread; look at amounts of power punches divided by KO/TKO's that still is extremely flawed (tho better than what is currently presented in the op) because it does not take into account if the stoppage was due to a combination of punches rather than the brute force of a single punch (which would much better indication of raw one punch power).

Unless someone comes up with an algorithm to solve this, i still think using the your eyes is the best tool to judge punching power. It's just very hard to do it any other way.
Even an attribute like handspeed would be much easier to calculate than one punch power.

[JAB5239]

Jab, no-one is arguing with the points in your post. Wlad is cautious, everyone agrees with that. It can be frustrating to watch because people want to see him use the power he possesses, again anyone would agree with that.

I think the original point of the thread was trying to argue that Wlad does not have true power, because most of his KO's come in the later rounds. Which is borderline ******ed to be honest.

Just because he doesn't throw bombs until he is confident his opponent is worn down enough, has no bearing on how much power he actually has. The opening post in this thread is completely irrelevant to me. When your knockouts occur concerns only styles, if you were to compare Wlad and Tyson for instance.

That's fine and I can respect that. I have no doubt Wlad is one of the top 10 hardest hitting heavyweights in history. My points are it's ridiculous to judged Wlads power on stopping 16 guys who were never stopped before when most of those guys were fighting "soft touches" to build their records....and that Wlad is now afraid to get hit, hence the way he currently fights. I agree he has great power, skills, speed, etc, but THESE are the things Im taking issue with against those that would exaggerate on Wlad to inflate his reputation and the way other may see him. My only two real criticisms of Wlad as a fighter are he's boring (in my opinion) and he lacks the confidence to take a hard punch, therefore putting much of his skills on the shelf in order to play it safe by using his advantage in size.

[JAB5239]

yeah this is just a manifestation of styles. No one except for the lone ****** alá domination would argue that Wlad is NOT safety first.

I don't think the data (or statistics if you will) presented in the OP is relevant AT ALL when trying to prove or disprove punching power.

Even if we do as i suggested earlier in this thread; look at amounts of power punches divided by KO/TKO's that still is extremely flawed (tho better than what is currently presented in the op) because it does not take into account if the stoppage was due to a combination of punches rather than the brute force of a single punch (which would much better indication of raw one punch power).

Unless someone comes up with an algorithm to solve this, i still think using the your eyes is the best tool to judge punching power. It's just very hard to do it any other way.
Even an attribute like handspeed would be much easier to calculate than one punch power.

And what about size? I put more stock in a guy who is 20lbs smaller and knocking out a similar opponent in value than the guy who is 20lbs bigger. In other words someone like Joe Louis destroying Carnera is much more impressive to me than Wlad wearing down someone like Chagaev, just as an example

[Barry Halls]

And what about size? I put more stock in a guy who is 20lbs smaller and knocking out a similar opponent in value than the guy who is 20lbs bigger.

Now you're talking about some p4p criteria within a weightclass. If you feel that way, fine, theres some legitimate reasons for it. But to me It's about "who packs the biggest punch" and that "biggest punch" will be the same no matter if a guy weigh 220 or 240.

I'm all for using p4p as a criteria because it allows us to appreciate the greatness of a sugar ray robinson or benny leonard.

But in terms of whos got the biggest punch at hw? No, I think that waters it all down.

[JAB5239]

Now you're talking about some p4p criteria within a weightclass. If you feel that way, fine, theres some legitimate reasons for it. But to me It's about "who packs the biggest punch" and that "biggest punch" will be the same no matter if a guy weigh 220 or 240.

I'm all for using p4p as a criteria because it allows us to appreciate the greatness of a sugar ray robinson or benny leonard.

But in terms of whos got the biggest punch at hw? No, I think that waters it all down.

So you don't think its more impressive a fighter like Louis can just as easily wear down a behemoth as Wlad, who is 45lbs heavier than him? It's just my opinion, but I think there is a lot that needs to be taken into consideration when determining something so subjective. If not we might as well declare Lamar Clarke the hardest hitting heavyweight ever.

[Joeyzagz]

Even if we do as i suggested earlier in this thread; look at amounts of power punches divided by KO/TKO's that still is extremely flawed (tho better than what is currently presented in the op) because it does not take into account if the stoppage was due to a combination of punches rather than the brute force of a single punch (which would much better indication of raw one punch power).

This is the best post in this thread. KO% and punching power are not the same thing.

If you want to measure TRUE punching power you have to calculate punches needed per KO Counting rounds is useless if a guy doesnt start throwing until late.

We dont have reliable punch stats for most fights but if I were to guess, Id say Foreman needed the fewest punches per KO.

[Barry Halls]

So you don't think its more impressive a fighter like Louis can just as easily wear down a behemoth as Wlad, who is 45lbs heavier than him? It's just my opinion, but I think there is a lot that needs to be taken into consideration when determining something so subjective. If not we might as well declare Lamar Clarke the hardest hitting heavyweight ever.

Yeah obviously It's more impressive. But the question was who hits the hardest, and that would be regardless of size disadvantage.

You could throw in some p4p stipulation but then we're talking about julian jackson and the likes as well.

But yes, i think It's more impressive when a small guy Ko's a large man.

[cupocity303]

I think Foreman, Shavers, Tyson, Lewis, Liston and Louis all hit harder than Wladimir.

Freddie Roach disagrees with that, and like you he gave no basis for his statement/opinion.


But then again, he is a world class trainer, and you're not.