Who has the better resume: Lucian Bute or Andre Berto

[jrosales13]

I never said he wasn't. You said that he was up, I said that doesn't mean he wasn't ko'd. Many fighters have beaten the count & had the fight stopped. He was done. The ref went out of his way to make sure Bute won, period. Matter of fact, what's his face that Berto ko'd before losing to Ortiz beat the count & they stopped the fight & he wasn't even hurt half as bad as Bute was.

Because, at the end of the day is up to the ref if they want to stop it or not? Why do you keep bringing up these other lame examples?

RJ hit Griffith while he was down and got DQ'd. Another ref would probably just have taken 2 points away. Not every ref will ref it the same way. It's up to the ref.

Mills Lane took 2 points away from Tyson when he bit Holyfield the first time. Another ref DQ'd the guy who bit Prescott.

Point is just cuz' one ref stops a fight, doesn't mean another will or should stop the fight for the same circumstances. Is that really hard to comprehend? I would really understand and agree with the gripe if Bute wasn't up by the count of 10. But, he was.

And, of course if a fighter is up before the count of 10 it means that he wasn't KO'd. I don't know what you're talking about. I guess you're talking about out on your feet type of thing. But, Berto was out on his feet against Rivera, Hatton was out on his feet against Collazo. But, they weren't KO'd. They were just out on their feet.

[Imhotep]

Dude, Quintana was way past it when Berto beat him. Miranda's as good a win for Bute as Quintana was for Berto.

GTFOH,you coming up with lame excuses in order to Justify picking Bute.So it shows its no use arguing with people like you.

[Bushbaby]

Because, at the end of the day is up to the ref if they want to stop it or not? Why do you keep bringing up these other lame examples?

RJ hit Griffith while he was down and got DQ'd. Another ref would probably just have taken 2 points away. Not every ref will ref it the same way. It's up to the ref.

Mills Lane took 2 points away from Tyson when he bit Holyfield the first time. Another ref DQ'd the guy who bit Prescott.

Point is just cuz' one ref stops a fight, doesn't mean another will or should stop the fight for the same circumstances. Is that really hard to comprehend? I would really understand and agree with the gripe if Bute wasn't up by the count of 10. But, he was.

And, of course if a fighter is up before the count of 10 it means that he wasn't KO'd. I don't know what you're talking about. I guess you're talking about out on your feet type of thing. But, Berto was out on his feet against Rivera, Hatton was out on his feet against Collazo. But, they weren't KO'd. They were just out on their feet.

The ref didn't simply decide if Bute was out or not. That's the point. Marlon Wright went out of his way to make sure that Bute won. He went above & beyond everything logical to make sure of it. You said that Bute was up by nine. I simply pointed out that just because you may beat a count by a second, doesn't mean that you weren't ko'd. The examples weren't lame, they supported my opinion entirely. Your just mad that my point has legit merit. You can't run away with them all. Just get over it & move on & stop bring up stuff irrelevant to the topic. That childish of a man of your stature on boxingscene.(You are a man right)? LOL!!

[jrosales13]

The ref didn't simply decide if Bute was out or not. That's the point. Marlon Wright went out of his way to make sure that Bute won. He went above & beyond everything logical to make sure of it. You said that Bute was up by nine. I simply pointed out that just because you may beat a count by a second, doesn't mean that you weren't ko'd. The examples weren't lame, they supported my opinion entirely. Your just mad that my point has legit merit. You can't run away with them all. Just get over it & move on & stop bring up stuff irrelevant to the topic. That childish of a man of your stature on boxingscene.

In what World does beating the count doesn't mean you weren't KO'd? To prove you not KO'd you have to beat the count, no?

Man of my stature on boxingscene? This is the internet, really? Why take this serious, how old are you? This is not the real World man. No one gives a damn about my "stature on boxingscene"

[IronDanHamza]

I don't think Berto beat Collazo either, but on his resume, it goes down as a w, regardless. Miranda had been ko'd even more times than Quintana I believe. But you have your op & I have mine.

But, if you think he lost then for you it shouldn't go down on his resume as a W.

If I think someone lost, I don't count that 'win' on their resume.

I.e Pastrano didn't beat Johnson even though he got the 'W', same goes for Ramirez over Whitaker, Chavez-Whitaker 'draw' for example.

I don't know off the top of my head about Miranda but it still isn't all that much worse than the Quintana win. It's about the same.

[New England]

by my count bute was leaning like a drunk against the corner wondering where the **** he was after ten seconds. the ref didn't even pick up the count from the official knockdown timekeeper.

he was unable to continue. in my book he wasn't even on his feet, the ropes were essentially still keeping him up at ten seconds.

i would have stopped that fight, and i think most refs without an agenda to keep bute in the winning column would have done the same

the ref made a mockery things.



a knockout loss to liberado andrade and a run of highlight knockouts of sub part comp is on the tier with,
but slightly below berto's consistent run of similarly sub par comp with a couple steps up (collazo, urango, zavek, and of course ortiz, were all good fighters at the time they fought berto, but nothing to write home about)
in my estimation anyway.


berto's also likely to get credit for the FOTY in 2011.
that fight dropped off a bit late, but it was certainly cracking from round 1 to 6

a lesser accomplishment than some other honors, perhaps, in some cases.
but no less honorable than any other accomplishment

if that makes any sense at all..


the other frontrunner for FOTY was on ESPN baby!

those guys made like fifteen grand a piece after taxes
probably less for rodriguez

and FTR, my vote goes to rodriguez and wolak

[Bushbaby]

In what World does beating the count doesn't mean you weren't KO'd? To prove you not KO'd you have to beat the count, no?

Man of my stature on boxingscene? This is the internet, really? Why take this serious, how old are you? This is not the real World man. No one gives a damn about my "stature on boxingscene"

You should have edited the bold sentence, it sounds ******. How old am I? Your the one that starts name calling whenever someone's argument has merit & you don't run away with it. Anyway take your ritcheous a$$ & kick rocks then. Malon Wright won that fight for Bute & thats that.

[Bushbaby]

But, if you think he lost then for you it shouldn't go down on his resume as a W.

If I think someone lost, I don't count that 'win' on their resume.

I.e Pastrano didn't beat Johnson even though he got the 'W', same goes for Ramirez over Whitaker, Chavez-Whitaker 'draw' for example.

I don't know off the top of my head about Miranda but it still isn't all that much worse than the Quintana win. It's about the same.

That's not true. Even if he lost, it goes down on his resume. But lets say I apply that very same logic to Bute. That means that since I feel he was ko'd, the 1st Andrade fight should go down as a ko loss then right?? See, that's impossible. A w is a w no matter how much we may not agree.

[IronDanHamza]

That's not true. Even if he lost, it goes down on his resume. But lets say I apply that very same logic to Bute. That means that since I feel he was ko'd, the 1st Andrade fight should go down as a ko loss then right?? See, that's impossible. A w is a w no matter how much we may not agree.

Well, no it doesn't.

I don't care what the ******ed judges say. Harold Johnson beat Pastrano. And it is a W on his resume.

So yes, technically, to you, Bute lost the first Andrade fight.

A W is not a W. The judges are not the be all and end all if it's CLEARLY a bull**** descision.

[BoxingGenius27]

Bute beat his opponents more convincingly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he fought the better opposition.

IMO, Berto started stepping up his competition when he fought Collazo. Some, including myself, think Collazo was the 1st to beat Hatton. I would also consider Quintana, Ortiz, and Zaveck solid opponents.

Whereas, when Bute fights, I just don't get that feeling. Everytime his next opponent is announced, I think to myself "Are you kidding me?" Mende? Or Miranda? That's just how I feel when a Bute fight is announced. I'm not sitting at the edge of my seat thinking, "Oh boy, this might be a close one".

For instance, if you look on this forum when a Bute fight is announced, how many people on here are like "Give me a Break. Fighter A?".

Not to say Berto is fighting elite competition, but I do think it's better than Bute's. It's still a close call, that's just how I feel about it.

At the end of the day, it's all opinionated.