The Flaws of The Klitschko Brothers

[Mr. Invincible]

I don't understand that one? I would consider someone like Marquez to never have been beaten legitimately (before fighting Mayweather anyway), but a TKO loss in seven rounds because you have one of the worst cuts ever seen, caused by a punch and your face is quickly melting off is about as legitimate a TKO loss as there is. There was no crookedness in that loss because of the Dr. They had already let it go on longer than is typical.

I don't know why people refuse to say that was a legitimate loss. When you get your face broken by punches to the point that you are in severe medical trouble with possible permanent damage, it's more than legit. Saying it was just luck too? Now you're just getting silly. What's the difference between a punch that causes a fight ending cut and a punch that causes a fight ending knock down? They are both possible ways to end the fight before the twelfth round without it going to points and both are as legit as each other.

Does that mean every single fighter in history who has lost because of cuts didn't really lose that fight?

I think it's about time we all came to the realisation that Lewis won the fight by TKO and Klitschko just got beaten. You can make the same ifs, buts, and could haves about any fight. "If Klitschko knocked out Lewis then he would have won the fight", or "If Tyson had knocked out DOuglas he would not have lost"......

Well, guess what? Klitschko didn't knock Lewis out. He got stopped. Tyson did get knocked out, but hey, we can say that if he didn't then he would have beaten Douglas. Does that mean Tyson never lost legitimately then? If we just say "If this had happened instead..."?

That's what it comes down to. Your whole argument that Klitschko hasn't really lost rests on the fact that he could have beaten Lewis if something different other than him losing by TKO had occurred. I could have been the greatest fighter ever, but I'm not because I didn't become one and gave up after a short, crappy amateur career....but I still could have been the greatest if something different had happened rather than what actually did happen.

So, basically, what you're saying is that we should just ignore what really happened and just pretend that Lewis didn't win because Klitschko could have won if he didn't get beaten instead?

Should Wlad's losses not count because he could have beaten Brewster if he didn't get knocked out? Should his KO losses to Sanders, Purrity and Brewster all not count because he might have beaten on a different night, or he might have beaten them if, instead of him getting knocked out, he knocked them out?

Revising history to suit our needs is fun. We can just make stuff up to make us feel better about what really happened.

There's a difference between comprehensively losing a fight and losing simply because a combination of punches, dreadlocks, headbutts and forearms caused you to cut up and have a dr. stop a fight that you were mostly dominating. If you have any common sense, you know the difference.

[nomadman]

Bolded: Sure it does. He was beating every man he ever faced as a pro barring injury. Byrd hit him with jabs and Lennox was just as good and sharp as ever for their fight. He was finally up against his equal. You don't have to admit it, very few Klitschko detractors do.

I'm not going to be an arse and say that Lennox was fat, out of shape slow etc, because he wasn't. But he wasn't at his all time best either. He still weathered an early scare and came back to stop Vit in the sixth via a legimitate doctor's stoppage, very few Klitschko fanboys admit that either.

[nomadman]

There's a difference between comprehensively losing a fight and losing simply because a combination of punches, dreadlocks, headbutts and forearms caused you to cut up and have a dr. stop a fight that you were mostly dominating. If you have any common sense, you know the difference.

You seem to lack any of that, if you believe the nonsense you've just typed.

[Mr. Invincible]

You seem to lack any of that, if you believe the nonsense you've just typed.

Ok, we will agree to disagree as it is very clear that the punch that supposedly caused Vitali to cut initially came right before Lennox and Vitali's heads came together. Watch it al you want. Throughout the fight Lennox got to Vitali's face with more forarms headbutts and dreads than he did punches.

It's a legit win by boxings rules and nothing more. Vitali was owning Lennox and barring the cut, he stops him late like he does most of his opponents.

You don't have to agree, but the most likely proof is the FACT that Lennox turned down 20+ million to rematch big Vit.

That's proof enough for me. Vitali was the real winner that day.

[nomadman]

It's a legit win by boxings rules and nothing more. Vitali was owning Lennox and barring the cut, he stops him late like he does most of his opponents.

Why was Vitali staggering and desperate to hold on at the very end of the sixth then? If any fighter was going to get stopped that night it wasn't Lennox who, after the scare in the second, looked to be increasingly pouring it on.

[Mr. Invincible]

Why was Vitali staggering and desperate to hold on at the very end of the sixth then? If any fighter was going to get stopped that night it wasn't Lennox who, after the scare in the second, looked to be increasingly pouring it on.

But still managed to lose rounds? C'mon, Lennox was fading badly too aside from a good couple of uppercuts he landed in the clinch. Don't rewrite history. He won on a technicality and was chased out of boxing by the Klitschko's and now Vitali dominated at an age much more advanced than Lennox was when he retired.

[ballgamessuck]

Ummm, they dont speak English very well and they are ugly.

Has nothing to do with nothing. We don't need trolling no matter what side you're taking.

My point being I dont really feel they have any. Sorry I forgot to ask your permission to post. Blow it out your ass.

[nomadman]

But still managed to lose rounds? C'mon, Lennox was fading badly too aside from a good couple of uppercuts he landed in the clinch. Don't rewrite history. He won on a technicality and was chased out of boxing by the Klitschko's and now Vitali dominated at an age much more advanced than Lennox was when he retired.

He wasn't just landing uppercuts, he was landing overhand rights that were having a serious effect on Vitali, as well as generally starting to bully him backwards. By the tail end of the sixth Vitali was staggering and desperate to hold on, so much so that he nearly tackles Lennox around the waist. This isn't rewriting anything, it's the plan truth and is perfectly verifiable by looking at the fight. What is rewriting is claiming that Vitali was dominating every second of every round and would have knocked Lennox out had the fight not been stopped when it was. As is all the headbutts, forearms, killer dreads nonsense that seems to have sprung up in the last year. Though if you can find me a single reliable post-fight article that claims that Lennox won via illegal moves then post it; I'd be glad to read it. Until then don't dare accuse me of rewriting history.

[bojangles1987]

While I'm not looking forward to the Klitschkos retiring, I'd like to see someone else step up first, it will be a good day when they do and a few years can pass. Then conversations like this can be had seriously.

[Mr. Invincible]

He wasn't just landing uppercuts, he was landing overhand rights that were having a serious effect on Vitali, as well as generally starting to bully him backwards. By the tail end of the sixth Vitali was staggering and desperate to hold on, so much so that he nearly tackles Lennox around the waist. This isn't rewriting anything, it's the plan truth and is perfectly verifiable by looking at the fight. What is rewriting is claiming that Vitali was dominating every second of every round and would have knocked Lennox out had the fight not been stopped when it was. As is all the headbutts, forearms, killer dreads nonsense that seems to have sprung up in the last year. Though if you can find me a single reliable post-fight article that claims that Lennox won via illegal moves then post it; I'd be glad to read it. Until then don't dare accuse me of rewriting history.

I never claimed Vitali won every second of every round but he was in fact dominating. The punchstats tell the tale if the fight visuals didn't for you. Vitali threw 75% more punches and landed 50% more than Lennox. Oh, and the staggered Vitali garbage is just that. Vitali held like he always does on the inside and Lennox caught him with a good uippercut. I'm sure it hurt buit he wasn't staggered at all. Lennox was buzzed a few times as I recall. Don't get mad because your hero got scared out of boxing. You should have written him a fan letter to help convince him to come back and getdominated by Vitali.

Lucky win on cuts is all it was. Otherwise Vitali wins. The crowd knew it and the judges. You just watched with bias eyes and it's understandable.