Freddie Roach explaining his cherry picking and catchweights

[-Kev-]

Roach is a joke. Imagine all the shit Roger and Floyd would get if Roger starts publicly talking about Floyd fighting guys only if the fighter is faded or hasn't looked good in last few performances.

[-Kev-]

Both Pacquiao and Mayweather have strategically taken fights that they're favored in and have advantages in. I like both guys, but let's be real, you can make a case for both guys cherry picking guys once they reached the top. Even this year both guys are in the same predicament where one guy is heavily favored over the other, but the picture is painted well enough to get people excited to watch the fights, no matter how much people at this moment will deny it.

Difference with me is, I don't complain about it everyday like a kid who lost his lunchbox.

How did Mayweather cherrypicked Mosley and Ortiz if those fights most fans wanted to see.want to see? People were calling for Floyd to fight Mosley. Ortiz was the best available opponent from 140-147 and he's a champion. They were both coming off great dominating wins. How Oscar, how did he cherrypick Oscar if he had to go up to 154 and fight Oscar who's last fight was a TKO6 win over Mayorga? Not to mention Floyd isn't even involved in catchweights. How did he cherrypick Baldomir when dumb ass fans and Brian Kenny were harassing him to take that fight, then when the fight was signed Baldomir was a bum. I'll give you Marquez and maybe Judah as cherrypicked fights. Doesn't add up to the amount of cherrypicking and catchweight fights Roach and Pacquiao are ivolved in.

[BoxingGenius27]

How did Mayweather cherrypicked Mosley and Ortiz if those fights most fans wanted to see.want to see? People were calling for Floyd to fight Mosley. Ortiz was the best available opponent from 140-147 and he's a champion. They were both coming off great dominating wins. How Oscar, how did he cherrypick Oscar if he had to go up to 154 and fight Oscar who's last fight was a TKO6 win over Mayorga? Not to mention Floyd isn't even involved in catchweights. How did he cherrypick Baldomir when dumb ass fans and Brian Kenny were harassing him to take that fight, then when the fight was signed Baldomir was a bum. I'll give you Marquez and maybe Judah as cherrypicked fights. Doesn't add up to the amount of cherrypicking and catchweight fights Roach and Pacquiao are ivolved in.

Great points. Floyd got harassed to fight certain people, then once he fights them, they were bums.

[The_Sandman]

Both Pacquiao and Mayweather have strategically taken fights that they're favored in and have advantages in. I like both guys, but let's be real, you can make a case for both guys cherry picking guys once they reached the top. Even this year both guys are in the same predicament where one guy is heavily favored over the other, but the picture is painted well enough to get people excited to watch the fights, no matter how much people at this moment will deny it.

Difference with me is, I don't complain about it everyday like a kid who lost his lunchbox.

I don't get it. How did Mayweather cherry pick? Did he not fight Oscar at Oscar's weight class? Did he not fight Hatton when he was undefeated?? Did he not fight Mosley when he did THAT to Margarito?? Is he not fighting Victor Ortiz after winning the belt? In another words, did he not fight these guys when they were threats?? I don't get it. Explain. And yes I want answers to all these questions. Please.

[bballchump11]

Exactly what Floyd wanted to do to Winky when they were negotiating to fight. He wanted to drain Winky by having a rehydration clause limiting Wright to weighing no more than 157 on the day of the fight.
http://forums.projectcovo.com/showth...=606314&page=3
That killed the Winky-Mayweather fight, and Mayweather then chose to fight an old and shot 140lber Sharmba Mitchell instead. And you want to call Pac a cherry picker?

You know catchweights didn't start with Manny Pacquiao, who had moved up more divisions when he had his catchweights than everyone else who'd ever demanded one. Smaller fighters with negotiating power have often done this to ensure they aren't physically outmatched and a more level playing field. Chavez did the same to Whitaker, Oscar to Hopkins, Leonard to Lalonde/Duran/Hearns, Taylor to Norris, and many more examples throughout history. This explains the logic behind what Roach said about Margarito, who was a monster of a welter, and Pac essentially a small JWW at that time who'd had one fight at welter by jumping two divisions as a super-feather/lightweight against Oscar, who everyone said was shot and weak at the weight after the fight.

This is all from around the De La Hoya fight, Pac was not a welter and had just moved up there for the Oscar fight where he weighed in at 142, 5lbs below the limit and in his next fight weighed just 138 against Hatton.

Everyone knows the situation of that fight and how Oscar tried to cherry pick a small fighter 3-4 divisions below him who he was expected to crush. If Roach was confident in his fighter having trained Oscar, no-one else called it, so it speaks more on Roach's genius (I remember everyone thinking he was trying to cash out on Pac for allowing him to take the De La Hoya fight). Reality is nobody cherry picked Oscar, he hand picked every single one of his opponents when he had control of his career. Pacquiao even pulled out of the fight his team wasn't satisfied the 70-30 split and career-high payday was sufficient for the magnitude of the risk of taking the fight (everyone thought Pac could take a career ending beating). This would not suggest they were as sure and confident they'd whoop Oscar as Roach is saying there.

As for Pac's opponents after that, Hatton was definately no cherry pick, coming off an impressive and powerful performance against the #1 contender, in the division he'd never been beaten at.

Cotto was not a cherry pick, he's too good for that, Mosley was the only other option, Cotto had a recent win over him, was much younger and more prime.

Clottey is not a fighter anybody cherry picks. He'd fought the best and given tough fights to all of them, where they'd all been heavily criticised after he fought them, he made them look that bad.

Timing of the Margarito fight wasn't the best, but atleast he fought him, and giving up 17 lbs to him in the fight. It was supposed to be at 147, but they agreed to have it @150 so they could fight for a JMW belt (alot more than the 143 Roach wanted back then). It was a JWW fighting a jr middleweight by the time of the fight. If anyone else had done that, they'd be praised beyond end for the risk they took.

Mosley was the only clear cherry pick. It was a money fight, and Pac paid for it with the backlash after it when Mosley offered no resistence other than to run after tasting Pac's power.

The Marquez fight is the logical conclusion to their trilogy, Marquez has the style which has troubled Pac both occasions they fought. Pac wasn't ever going to outweigh Marquez by much in the fight and he agreed to Marquez's catchweight to make it certain he won't. Marquez's effectiveness will depend on how he can deal with Pac's increased strength not draining himself to make weight. If he can, it should be a hell of a fight.

As a fan, I'm happy with how Pac's career has progressed since moving up. Mayweather is really the only fight he's missed, hopefully that happens next year and all doubters and haters are finally STFU.

lol so pretty much you agree that pac uses catchweights to get an advantage over his opponents and he didn't give Marquez a lower catchweight because it would favor Marquez?

[RL_GMA]

How did Mayweather cherrypicked Mosley and Ortiz if those fights most fans wanted to see.want to see? People were calling for Floyd to fight Mosley. Ortiz was the best available opponent from 140-147 and he's a champion. They were both coming off great dominating wins. How Oscar, how did he cherrypick Oscar if he had to go up to 154 and fight Oscar who's last fight was a TKO6 win over Mayorga? Not to mention Floyd isn't even involved in catchweights. How did he cherrypick Baldomir when dumb ass fans and Brian Kenny were harassing him to take that fight, then when the fight was signed Baldomir was a bum. I'll give you Marquez and maybe Judah as cherrypicked fights. Doesn't add up to the amount of cherrypicking and catchweight fights Roach and Pacquiao are ivolved in.

Floyd to me is an opportunist. He will take the best possible deal that will bring him the most money with least amount of risk. Is that a jab at him? Not from a business standpoint it isn't. He knows the business very well and doesn't put himself in situations he see can't benefit from and or will prevent him from making more money down the road.

Now, I'm not one of these people who goes around discrediting all of Floyd's opponents, but the arguments that are made for Pacquiao in relation to who he's fought can be done for Mayweather as well. The one constant that's always brought up is Floyd fighting the Lineal champion and or beating the #1 Welterweight, etc. All those are valid points. But if we start dissecting these wins like people willingly do with Pacquiao's last 4 years, you'll find things that fans who aren't biased for either would raise an eyebrow or two towards.

For instance, what makes Floyd's win over Mosley better than Cotto's victory 3 years prior? Because he was the Welterweight champion at the point Floyd beat him? Cotto fought him 9 months after Mosley's last fight while Floyd fought an older and inactive Mosley, and that ironically is his biggest win at Welterweight.

Like I said, I like both fighters, but I can make a case for the guys they've fought equally without being biased towards the fighter to make the win bigger than what it actually was. IMO, Floyd's victory over Mosley isn't any bigger than Pacquiao's win over Cotto.

[RL_GMA]

I don't get it. How did Mayweather cherry pick? Did he not fight Oscar at Oscar's weight class? Did he not fight Hatton when he was undefeated?? Did he not fight Mosley when he did THAT to Margarito?? Is he not fighting Victor Ortiz after winning the belt? In another words, did he not fight these guys when they were threats?? I don't get it. Explain. And yes I want answers tIs he not fighting Victor Ortiz after winning the belt?o all these questions. Please.

Did he not fight Oscar at Oscar's weight class?

He sure did. He also fought a De La Hoya who hadn't fought in a year prior to that fight and 2 years prior to that (Hopkins KO). I never complain much about that fight because it was a sure shot money maker for Floyd. He'd be an idiot not to accept that.

Did he not fight Hatton when he was undefeated??

He sure did. Who was Hatton's biggest win at Welterweight again? Remind me...

Did he not fight Mosley when he did THAT to Margarito??

16 months later, of course.


Is he not fighting Victor Ortiz after winning the belt?

Yes he is. Victor Ortiz also had a draw against a lesser skilled fighter than Floyd (Peterson) and virtually quit against another less skilled fighter than Floyd (Maidana). Yet again, Floyd being the opportunist.

------------------------------------------

See how easy it is? We can do this all day with both fighters, but as I always say...you're going to be biased towards who you favor at the end of the day.

[hebi]

Floyd to me is an opportunist. He will take the best possible deal that will bring him the most money with least amount of risk. Is that a jab at him? Not from a business standpoint it isn't. He knows the business very well and doesn't put himself in situations he see can't benefit from and or will prevent him from making more money down the road.

Now, I'm not one of these people who goes around discrediting all of Floyd's opponents, but the arguments that are made for Pacquiao in relation to who he's fought can be done for Mayweather as well. The one constant that's always brought up is Floyd fighting the Lineal champion and or beating the #1 Welterweight, etc. All those are valid points. But if we start dissecting these wins like people willingly do with Pacquiao's last 4 years, you'll find things that fans who aren't biased for either would raise an eyebrow or two.

For instance, what makes Floyd's win over Mosley better than Cotto's victory 3 years prior? Because he was the Welterweight champion at the point Floyd beat him? Cotto fought him 9 months after Mosley's last fight while Floyd fought an older and inactive Mosley, and that ironically is his biggest win at Welterweight.

Like I said, I like both fighters, but I can make a case for the guys they've fought equally without being biased towards the fighter to make the win bigger than what it actually was. IMO, Floyd's victory over Mosley isn't any bigger than Pacquiao's win over Cotto.

Good post and I agree with your assessment.