Gerorge Foreman: Wlad won't leave much of a legacy in boxing

[The Big Dunn]

They're the most dominant fighters today in the heavyweight division and have earned the right to be called that. But the current state of the division is highly questionable with most contenders showing few skills, questionable stamina and sitting around waiting for their chance at a big money fight instead of improving by fighting one another. As far as Wlad.....he has great potential but he fights scared which in turn makes him boring. That becomes magnified because most fans know he has talent and expect more of him.

Wlad may be dominant but not exciting. Its one thing to watch a ww or lw showcase skills. Its completely different watching a 6'7 guy who outweighs his opponent by 25-50lbs fight that way. Dude looks scared on TV.

[Vadrigar.]

Wlad may be dominant but not exciting. Its one thing to watch a ww or lw showcase skills. Its completely different watching a 6'7 guy who outweighs his opponent by 25-50lbs fight that way. Dude looks scared on TV.

[Dave Rado]

WOW, Foreman really let Wlad have it!!!

"Well, he’s a defensive fighter. It doesn’t matter if his opponent is big or small, he will never take any chances.

Continue reading on Examiner.com George Foreman: Wladimir will not leave much of a legacy in boxing - Houston Boxing | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-ho...#ixzz1S9HYQxo9

I suppose he also thinks that Mayweather, Sweat Pea, Jack Johnson and Willie Pep won't leave much of a legacy.

[The Big Dunn]

I suppose he also thinks that Mayweather, Sweat Pea, Jack Johnson and Willie Pep won't leave much of a legacy.

You have to admit its different when you are taller and heavier than your opponent and you fight like this.

[JAB5239]

Wlad may be dominant but not exciting. Its one thing to watch a ww or lw showcase skills. Its completely different watching a 6'7 guy who outweighs his opponent by 25-50lbs fight that way. Dude looks scared on TV.

I don't think he fights that way at all. A showcase of skills would consist of an inside and outside attack, working the body, feinting, parrying, slipping punches, throwing in combination, blocking and catching punches with his gloves etc, etc., not jab and grab with an occasional right. Im not trying to belittle him, but does anyone see him do these things with any consistency?

[Dave Rado]

You have to admit its different when you are taller and heavier than your opponent and you fight like this.

Not really. Traditionally, very tall and heavy heavyweights couldn't cut the mustard. Bowe was the first truly athletic super-heavyweight, and although he was more of a complete fighter than the subsequent ones, his reign was very short, precisely because his style resulted in him taking a huge amount of punishment, far more than his successors.

Bowe was closely followed by Lewis (they actually turned pro together but Lewis took longer to be recognised). Lewis's style wasn't really that different from Wlad's although Lewis did punch in combinations a lot more than Wlad - but Wlad has a much more effective jab than Lewis had, and his footwork is better than Lewis's as well.

The Klitschkos were the third and fourth genuinely athletic super-Heavyweights in the whole of boxing history, which makes it hard for people to make meaningful comparisons with the past (for instance, I've seen people compare them with Firpo, which is just stupid - even Valuev is as skilled and athletic as Firpo was, albeit minus Firpo's punching power.)

The fact is that the Klitschkos just have styles that work for them and that are extremely effective. And Vitali isn't particularly cautious in any case.

People keep criticising them for not going to the body, but most tall fighters don't go to the body much. Lewis freely admitted he had no inside game, as did Ali. Ali barely threw a single body punch in his life. And Hearns was the prototype for both Lewis's style and Wlad's style.

Sure Wlad rarely throws multi-punch combinations, but he doesn't need to: his jab and right hand are so effective.

His footwork is also massively under-rated by most. It was his footwork more than anything else that did for Haye. His footwork is his primary defence, and because of it, Haye couldn't even get close to landing most of the time. It was because Haye drastically under-estimated Wlad's footwork that he came up with such a poor gameplan.

He is also very skilled and subtle with his jab - it's not just the power behind it that makes it effective, it's its unpredictability, together with the frequency with which he throws it. Even when it doesn't land it keeps his opponent on the back foot.

And his grabbing is massively exaggerated by people. He does grab quite a lot but not nearly as much as people claim. There were quite a few rounds in the Haye fight in which he didn't hold once; and against Peter last year, most of the holding was done by Peter.

Finally, he's been gradually becoming less over-cautious in the last 2-3 years. Whereas he used to sometimes go several rounds into a fight before throwing a meaningful right, against Haye he was throwing his right with power from the second round. And despite his caution (which I think is understandable given his three knock-out losses), he has one of the highest knock-out ratios in history.

In any case, your post misses my point, which was that Foreman claims that all defensive fighters have no legacy by definition, and that's just an absurd thing to say.

[Mr. Invincible]

I suppose he also thinks that Mayweather, Sweat Pea, Jack Johnson and Willie Pep won't leave much of a legacy.

Dave if you read back on this thread, it's been insane. I had to warn you. Do you and this 'moderator' jabs butt heads too? Anyone with a positive mindset toward the Klitschko's seem to......................I wonder why, lol.

[Mr. Invincible]

You have to admit its different when you are taller and heavier than your opponent and you fight like this.

Whats different? You use the tools you were given, period. Lennox did if and now Wlad does. It's just kind of funny now that there's a eastern euro , white champ that somebody has a problem with it.

If Wlad was a Black American there would probably be no problem here.

[Mr. Invincible]

Not really. Traditionally, very tall and heavy heavyweights couldn't cut the mustard. Bowe was the first truly athletic super-heavyweight, and although he was more of a complete fighter than the subsequent ones, his reign was very short, precisely because his style resulted in him taking a huge amount of punishment, far more than his successors.

Bowe was closely followed by Lewis (they actually turned pro together but Lewis took longer to be recognised). Lewis's style wasn't really that different from Wlad's although Lewis did punch in combinations a lot more than Wlad - but Wlad has a much more effective jab than Lewis had, and his footwork is better than Lewis's as well.

The Klitschkos were the third and fourth genuinely athletic super-Heavyweights in the whole of boxing history, which makes it hard for people to make meaningful comparisons with the past (for instance, I've seen people compare them with Firpo, which is just stupid - even Valuev is as skilled and athletic as Firpo was, albeit minus Firpo's punching power.)

The fact is that the Klitschkos just have styles that work for them and that are extremely effective. And Vitali isn't particularly cautious in any case.

People keep criticising them for not going to the body, but most tall fighters don't go to the body much. Lewis freely admitted he had no inside game, as did Ali. Ali barely threw a single body punch in his life. And Hearns was the prototype for both Lewis's style and Wlad's style.

Sure Wlad rarely throws multi-punch combinations, but he doesn't need to: his jab and right hand are so effective.

His footwork is also massively under-rated by most. It was his footwork more than anything else that did for Haye. His footwork is his primary defence, and because of it, Haye couldn't even get close to landing most of the time. It was because Haye drastically under-estimated Wlad's footwork that he came up with such a poor gameplan.

He is also very skilled and subtle with his jab - it's not just the power behind it that makes it effective, it's its unpredictability, together with the frequency with which he throws it. Even when it doesn't land it keeps his opponent on the back foot.

And his grabbing is massively exaggerated by people. He does grab quite a lot but not nearly as much as people claim. There were quite a few rounds in the Haye fight in which he didn't hold once; and against Peter last year, most of the holding was done by Peter.

Finally, he's been gradually becoming less over-cautious in the last 2-3 years. Whereas he used to sometimes go several rounds into a fight before throwing a meaningful right, against Haye he was throwing his right with power from the second round. And despite his caution (which I think is understandable given his three knock-out losses), he has one of the highest knock-out ratios in history.

In any case, your post misses my point, which was that Foreman claims that all defensive fighters have no legacy by definition, and that's just an absurd thing to say.

Outstanding post AKA: Thread ender.

I wasn't going to give these nitwits the satisfaction of ending with dignity but I'm glad it was you who put a stamp on this. Well done.

[JAB5239]

Dave if you read back on this thread, it's been insane. I had to warn you. Do you and this 'moderator' jabs butt heads too? Anyone with a positive mindset toward the Klitschko's seem to......................I wonder why, lol.

You must not pay to much attention than. The only one I butt heads with are the delusional fan boys prone to over hyping their hero's. Poster's like Spray resistant and others who are Klit fans have had intelligent and civil debates without going out of there way to start insulting because someone doesn't see things the same as they. They alo don't duck questions and go out of there way to mention my name instead, in hopes of slandering me. And if you need to know, Dave and myself have always gotten along even if we haven't always agreed.