WLAD is the greatest heavyweight ever, Fact

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  • Welsh Jon
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    #131
    Originally posted by hweightblogger
    Yawn.

    • Archie Moore: 48 years old (Hall of Fame)
    • Henry Cooper (185 lbs, actually 180lbs but he inserted lead into his shoes)
    • Sonny Liston: the Eric Esch of the 1950s/1960s, won his HW title by beating a 189lbs guy
    • Floyd Patterson: had not a single real heavyweight fight (200x2)
    • Oscar Bonavena: Good guy but with 9 losses on his record
    • Bob Foster: Again, not a single real heavyweight fight on his record
    • Joe Frazier: Blind on his left eye. Wouldn't be allowed to box nowadays
    • Ken Norton: World champ without even winning ONCE in a title fight
    • George Foreman: Ali's trainer admitted he manipulated the ropes. Ali's co-trainer said they bribed the cooks to poison Foreman. Foreman claims he has been drugged ("I climbed into the ring with that medicinal taste still lingering in my mouth.") Highly doubtful win for Ali.
    • Earnie Shavers: Rather good win for Ali, although Shavers' power is grossly overrated in terms of modern heavyweight (215+ lbs).

    And spare us the US Hall of Fame. Nobody cares about an Ukrainian Hall of Fame with Ukrainian experts either.

    Nearly the whole record of The greatest Clay falls apart when closely analyzed.

    The Greatest Clay is 90% myth and 10% real.

    Since Ali's megalomaniac repetitions ("I am the Greatest") are the source of the myth, Ali is the greatest troll to ever box.
    Ok so Wlad beat:

    David Haye, a Cruiserweight with heavyweight wins over the likes of an over the hill, never much good in his prime anyway, John Ruiz and the plodding Valuez, was no bigger than many of Ali’s 70’s contender who you dismissed as too small. Bob Foster may have had no heavyweight pedigree but he had a HoF career as a light-heavy and was actually no smaller than Haye. Both Haye and Foster were 6’3, Foster had a 79 inch reach to Haye’s 78. The weight discrepancy between Ali and Foster was no different to the weight advantages that Wlad had in most of his title fights.

    Chris Byrd, was a good fighter but he made his made his pro debut at Super-middleweight and bulked up to go for the bigger pay days at heavyweight. He was naturally no bigger than many of Ali’s contenders. He had a very good heavyweight career, twice capturing versions of the heavyweight title, but he’s unlikely to be considered as a Hall of Fame entrant

    Ruslan Chaegev, was WBO champ going into the Wlad fight, having beaten the unco-ordinated giant Valuez for the title and churned out ugly as *** victories over Matt Skelton and Carl Drumond. I fail to see anything that would suggest this guy was superior to most of Ali’s contenders.

    Sultan Ibragimov, was WBO champ going into the Wlad fight, but had a second rate resume containing wins over washed up Holyfield and Briggs.

    Hasim Rahman, had a championship KO victory over HoF Lennox Lewis, but that was 7 years before the Wlad fight. Since then he had lost to Ruiz and Maskaev and been shown up by James Toney.

    Sam Peter, would have been a feared puncher in any era. Wlad showed a lot of skill and heart to come back from the knockdowns he suffered in their first fight, but that fight did highlight the probs with Wlad’s chin.

    Ray Mercer, fat, limited American heavyweight.

    Francois Botha, gatekeeper type, always lost to the top guys.

    Eddie Chambers, solid contender. Best America had to offer, but lost to Europe’s best Wlad and Povetkin.

    Tony Thompson, only his size convinced some people he might be a contender to Wlad.

    Despite all that you wrote I still don't see how you can say Wlad fought the tougher fights.

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    • kendom
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      #132
      Originally posted by hweightblogger
      Going 15 rounds is a failure, not a virtue.

      And at heavyweight you don't need "more skills". A guy with nearly zero skills can beat a guy with the full set of skills.

      The 15-round argument and the skill nonsense are usually brought up by Clay Stench Inhalers.

      It's like saying "Yeah, my boxer got knocked out, but did you see how beautifully he FEINTED?"

      Stop living in the past. Nobody cares about 15-rounders. Jess Willard was a 26-rounder, does that mean he is better than Joe Louis or what?
      The point is most heavyweight boxers today cant go 15 rounds, showing that most heavyweights today are nowhere as conditioned as they were before, btw show me an example of "A guy with nearly zero skills can beat a guy with the full set of skills".

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      • JAB5239
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        #133
        Originally posted by kendom
        The point is most heavyweight boxers today cant go 15 rounds, showing that most heavyweights today are nowhere as conditioned as they were before, btw show me an example of "A guy with nearly zero skills can beat a guy with the full set of skills".
        I couldn't even bother to respond to that incredibly ****** and ridiculous claim, I was laughing to hard!

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        • kendom
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          #134
          Originally posted by hweightblogger
          Yawn.

          • Archie Moore: 48 years old (Hall of Fame)
          • Henry Cooper (185 lbs, actually 180lbs but he inserted lead into his shoes)
          • Sonny Liston: the Eric Esch of the 1950s/1960s, won his HW title by beating a 189lbs guy
          • Floyd Patterson: had not a single real heavyweight fight (200x2)
          • Oscar Bonavena: Good guy but with 9 losses on his record
          • Bob Foster: Again, not a single real heavyweight fight on his record
          • Joe Frazier: Blind on his left eye. Wouldn't be allowed to box nowadays
          • Ken Norton: World champ without even winning ONCE in a title fight
          • George Foreman: Ali's trainer admitted he manipulated the ropes. Ali's co-trainer said they bribed the cooks to poison Foreman. Foreman claims he has been drugged ("I climbed into the ring with that medicinal taste still lingering in my mouth.") Highly doubtful win for Ali.
          • Earnie Shavers: Rather good win for Ali, although Shavers' power is grossly overrated in terms of modern heavyweight (215+ lbs).

          And spare us the US Hall of Fame. Nobody cares about an Ukrainian Hall of Fame with Ukrainian experts either.

          Nearly the whole record of The greatest Clay falls apart when closely analyzed.

          The Greatest Clay is 90% myth and 10% real.

          Since Ali's megalomaniac repetitions ("I am the Greatest") are the source of the myth, Ali is the greatest troll to ever box.
          LOOL trying to discredit Sonny Liston who had one of the strongest jabs in heavyweight history, had incredible punching power in both hands and was an adequate technician, this post just shows your ignorance on boxing.

          About Floyd Paterson so what, he was a master of peek a boo that Tyson used and had good head movement, which is much better than the bums that are in the division today

          The fact that he has 9 losses on his record discredits him when he fought in one of the toughest eras of boxing? what kind of logic is that? this is a pathetic attempt to destroy the credibility of Alis opponents.

          So what if Frazier was blind in his left eye? does that take away his credibility, give me a solid argument why Frazier wouldnt destroy all the heavyweights today apart from "hes too small".

          Ken Norton fought George Foreman, Ali, Shavers much tougher opponents than Klitchsko ever faced, again your argument against him is just a weak attempt to destroy his credibility, give me a good reason why he wouldnt be champion today apart fom the usual rhetoric

          It wasnt a highly doubtful win Foreman was just making excuses why dont you just face the fact that Ali defeated him rather than coming up with conspiracy theories.

          So his size means his heavyweight power is overrated? when will you learn that punching power isnt about size, mike Tyson was most effective in terms of power in the eighties when he weighed about 217-219 lbs, not much heavier than Shavers, most of the strongest heavyweight punchers didnt weigh more than 225 lbs.

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          • BattlingNelson
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            #135
            Originally posted by Grand Champ
            I thought you were a brit and haye fan, SLim?
            He is. Haye is the second greatest HW ever and Froch tops his p4p list.


            Originally posted by prinzemanspopa
            The more I think about it,the more I analyze Wladimir's resume,the more I watch him continually dominate world class contenders,the more I'm convinced that I'm watching the finest heavyweight to have ever graced the squared circle.Perhaps a little rash to make such a statement while he's still an active fighter and still looks set to dominate for a couple more years,but he's certainly on that particular path.His dominance of the division simply cannot be ignored.




            This man strips his opponent down,takes away virtually every strength in his opponents game,and reduces them to a mere sparring partner.His aura alone is enough to intimidate his opposition.And he's doing all this at 35 years of age and largely behind a single punch - the jab.If he was utilizing his full offense,these guy would probably end up in a coma.He has one of the most devastating left hooks in the sports history,and he rarely uses it anymore.



            So great he is,he doesn't even need to be at his very best to dominate his division.The man is simply incredible.The sport will take a huge hit when he eventually retires and settles down with a family of his own.
            Yeah Wlad dominates a great deal so he is a great fighter but the opposition is so bad, as you yourself are implying, that they cannot even get Wlad to use more of his offense. The opposition is in fact the thing that hinders us from rightfully assess Wlad's place among the HW's. Nobody really knows how he handles diversity.

            BITD when Mike Tyson was unstoppable he said he wished for an opponent who could take him to the brink of destruction (in order to see how good he was) and those words could be put on Wlad today. Remember that Tyson knew his boxing history and he was right in his assessment.

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            • hweightblogger
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              #136
              Originally posted by kendom
              The point is most heavyweight boxers today cant go 15 rounds
              1) Pure speculation
              2) The reason heavyweight went 20+ rounds before was that they weren't heavyweights but light heavyweights or cruisers

              Originally posted by kendom
              showing that most heavyweights today are nowhere as conditioned as they were before
              You got it the other way around:
              In previous times the CHAMPS were fat: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...89&postcount=9
              Last edited by hweightblogger; 07-05-2011, 12:54 PM.

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              • hweightblogger
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                #137
                Originally posted by BattlingNelson
                Yeah Wlad dominates a great deal so he is a great fighter but the opposition is so bad, as you yourself are implying, that they cannot even get Wlad to use more of his offense.
                Wrong, Wlad is so good that he makes his opposition look bad.

                Ali was so bad, that he made his opposition look good.

                Just think about alf-blind Frazier.

                The Foreman fight is what would have happened to Frazier in modern times.

                Yet Ali went full 3 fights with him because Ali makes his opposition look good by STRUGGLING. Whereas guys like Sam Peter or Haye would have ruled entire eras and Wlad bummifies them.

                The same with Norton who got demolished by the first hard punchers he faced.

                It's only because of featherfist Ali that Norton could shine.

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                • kendom
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                  #138
                  Originally posted by hweightblogger
                  1) Pure speculation

                  Not really seeing as they're gasping for air after 6 rounds and can barely go twelve its safe to say they would have struggled to go 15
                  2) The reason heavyweight went 20+ rounds before was that they weren't heavyweights but light heavyweights or cruisers

                  No the reason was becasue they kept themeselves in shape and didnt waste needless energy in the ring, im not talking about 20+ rounds im talking about 15 rounds which fighters who were heavy enough to compete toaday like Ali, Norton and Louis fought at.

                  You got it the other way around:
                  In previous times the CHAMPS were fat: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...89&postcount=9
                  Lol you posted a couple pics of them off the ring and that proves that all of them were fat? this is ridiculous, you just cant deny the fact that they're much better conditioned than most heavyweights today, this is plain to see through film.
                  Last edited by kendom; 07-05-2011, 01:34 PM.

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                  • Welsh Jon
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                    #139
                    Originally posted by hweightblogger
                    Wrong, Wlad is so good that he makes his opposition look bad.

                    Ali was so bad, that he made his opposition look good.

                    Just think about alf-blind Frazier.

                    The Foreman fight is what would have happened to Frazier in modern times.

                    Yet Ali went full 3 fights with him because Ali makes his opposition look good by STRUGGLING. Whereas guys like Sam Peter or Haye would have ruled entire eras and Wlad bummifies them.

                    The same with Norton who got demolished by the first hard punchers he faced.

                    It's only because of featherfist Ali that Norton could shine.
                    If Wlad fought Norton I don't doubt that Wlad would knock him out. That doesn't change the fact he is still better than the vast majority of Wlad's opponents.

                    In the future when boxing historians and fans will look back on footage of Norton vs Ali, or vs Jerry Quarry, of vs Holmes and think, yeah this guy has the skills to worry most champions in history. There are questions about his chin, but then those same questions exist with Wlad.

                    Are boxing historians gonna look back on Chagaev vs Skelton or Chagaev vs Valuez and think the same? Or Ibragimov vs Briggs? I really doubt it.

                    And as for Samuel Peter ruling an era, don't be ******, his punching power would be feared in any era, but he's otherwise limited. He's Earnie Shavers but fatter.

                    If you believe that Wlad would still dominate in Ali's era that ok (though I don't agree with it) but I really object to your claims that Ali's era was weaker than the current one cos that is so obviously untrue it's unreal.

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                    • etlux
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                      #140
                      Wlad isn't the greatest ever accomplishment wise or resumé wise but he certainly has good chance to annihilate any heavyweight in history. Not saying he'd win 100% but very good chance he'd destroy Ali, Foreman etc as he is simply too big too strong too skilled.

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