Carl Froch and Lucian Bute are both better P4P than Andre Ward

[Pullcounter]

its unfair to compare ward with cobra.

froch has been in the game way longer than ward ofcors he is the better p4p right now. ward is stil coming up and his potential is huge.

i just cant wait for the final , one of the most interesting fight for a long long time.

froch imho is just as versatile as ward.

froch proved he can box against AA... and he did a better job of it than ward did.

froch can **** and brawl... he's better at that than ward too.

froch can also fight dirty... but he's not as good as ward at that.

imho, given ward's athleticism, he should be whupping these guys like nothing, but he's no RJJ. he's a BHOP lite.

[Blubba]

froch imho is just as versatile as ward.

froch proved he can box against AA... and he did a better job of it than ward did.

froch can **** and brawl... he's better at that than ward too.

froch can also fight dirty... but he's not as good as ward at that.

imho, given ward's athleticism, he should be whupping these guys like nothing, but he's no RJJ. he's a BHOP lite.

i dont dispute any of this, im a huge cobra fan.. but sum ppl r abit harsh on ward, he aint exactly my type of fighter but he's only 27 who knows what he may develop into, in the future.

to me i dunt really care which is p4p. i leaning towards cobro if he picks the right plan he will beat ward, but ward is the type that can adapt his plans at any point of the fight. so its tough call, gud fight man.

[The Surgeon]

Froch dominated Abraham, defeating him more convincingly than Ward.

Bute KOed Miranda, while Ward went the distance with him.

Without his CHEATING (headbutts, hitting off the break, hitting while holding) Andre Ward is a very ordinary boxer.

Ward doesn't win his fights in an impressive way - he fails to stop his opponents, despite all his cheating.

If he ever sums up the courage to fight a decent opponent outside California, the fraud that is Andre Ward will be exposed.

Are u for real? Froch has built a good resume, and he did do better imo against AA than Ward but then i felt it was a better AA Ward had infront of him AND he beat the piss outta Kessler while Froch lost.
Bute stopped Miranda and Andre didnt, big deal Wards not a big ****er. P4p isnt based purely on knockouts jeebus

[Pullcounter]

i dont dispute any of this, im a huge cobra fan.. but sum ppl r abit harsh on ward, he aint exactly my type of fighter but he's only 27 who knows what he may develop into, in the future.

I think ward is as good as he'll ever get. he's not gonna get any faster or punch any harder.

what I'd like to see is for him to set up his shots better so he can catch his opponents cleaner.

to me i dunt really care which is p4p.

I too don't care too much for the p4p debate

i leaning towards cobro if he picks the right plan he will beat ward, but ward is the type that can adapt his plans at any point of the fight. so its tough call, gud fight man.

I think if froch uses his height and reach he can beat ward. when ward gets on the inside, I trust that froch can hold-n-hit with the best of them. ward isn't really a great inside fighter (like say a prime JLC or a prime corrales... those guys never held!!!) he just holds and hits.

I think with the right kinda ref that limits ward's hold-n-hit tactics, I think froch would have a really good chance.

seriously, I'm not really impressed with Ward's handspeed or footspeed. I mean it's above average, but he's no nonito or pac.

[Pullcounter]

i felt it was a better AA Ward had infront of him

yeah.. I think AA was more motivated against Ward than Froch, but that could be because Froch is a bigger puncher and had the reach and height advantage.

AND he beat the piss outta Kessler while Froch lost.

yeah, but froch fought kessler in kessler's backyard while kessler fought ward in his backyard.

Bute stopped Miranda and Andre didnt, big deal Wards not a big ****er. P4p isnt based purely on knockouts jeebus

it wasn't just that bute stopped miranda and ward didn't...

bute's style against miranda was just more aesthetically pleasing... ward's hold n hit style against miranda was just ugly...

but ward's resume imho is better than bute's

[The Surgeon]

yeah.. I think AA was more motivated against Ward than Froch, but that could be because Froch is a bigger puncher and had the reach and height advantage.


yeah, but froch fought kessler in kessler's backyard while kessler fought ward in his backyard.


it wasn't just that bute stopped miranda and ward didn't...

bute's style against miranda was just more aesthetically pleasing... ward's hold n hit style against miranda was just ugly...

but ward's resume imho is better than bute's

Froch's power might have been a big factor, thats very feesable. But by the way Abraham just fell back into his old routine of tucking up after a few rounds with Ward i feel like it was a motivational thing but fair point.

Regarding Kessler, back yards or not the difference in those fights was HUGE! To be fair tho Kessler was a better hungrier figher against Carl than Ward too. but the difference is Ward has managed to keep winning. I rate Froch (now!) but i cannot make a case for him over Ward

And Bute vs Miranda might have been more impressive but Ward was impressive in his own right and like we both know isnt a KO Puncher, Sweet Pea Whittaker did ok on the ol p4p rankings with little pop in his shots either. Wards opposition trumps Butes and thats why he is ahead of him on MY p4p rankings which by the way is way over blown and people put too much stock into p4p

[Malicious]

I'm the one here who follows boxing honestly.

The over-protected Andre "Sven Ottke" Ward hasn't proven himself by fighting a world-class opponent away from California.

If he went to the UK and fought Froch and won, he would earn my respect.

If he won a fight impressively like Bute without resorting to illegal DIRTY TACTICS then he would earn my respect.

Who has Bute fought to warrant a higher ranking than Ward? The only opponent he's faced who was worth a **** at the time they fought is Andrade I. Not to mention the fact he rarely leaves Canada.

It baffles me that there are so many super-middleweights out there that have proven themselves against top competition, yet a lot of people consider Bute #1 in the division. He fights mediocre competition considering he is a world champ.

[IronDanHamza]

Nonsense.

Andre Ward clearly has a superior resume to Lucian Bute.

No question.

[Pullcounter]

Nonsene.

Andre Ward clearly has a superior resume to Lucian Bute.

No question.

this is undisputable, but that doesn't mean ward would beat bute imho

[IronDanHamza]

this is undisputable, but that doesn't mean ward would beat bute imho

I agree but I don't think the P4P criteria is based off H2H match up's. Atleast mine isn't.

I guess everyone has the criteria, though.