Comments Thread For: Marquez Wants Interim-Bout Before Pacquiao Clash

[LeadUppercut]

Manny and Team Pac are going to give you a heart attack one day...

You mean by fighting someone other than old men, faded champions, and stiff's?

I doubt it.

[HandSpeed303]

You mean by fighting someone other than old men, faded champions, and stiff's?

I doubt it.

No...I mean that he, and his team clearly get under your skin to a degree that isn't normal.

[HandSpeed303]

I have no interest at all in Marquez vs Pacquiao at 147.

That fight would be an obvious mis-match, which is why Pac demanded 147.

Nor do I have any interest in watching Martinez fight at LHW, nor Pac at MW.

But I would be kinda interested ina fight where the deal was to meet in the middle, instead of dragging Marquez waaay out of his comfort zone to 147.

140 would be fine.

Marquez is now a lightweight so he would still be at a disadvantage, Manny would be faster and stronger, but 140 is a lot fairer than 147. JMM is being set up by those cherry-picking ****s." Freddie Roach, Manny Pacquiao’s trainer, said recently that Pacquiao’s natural fighting weight is probably 140 pounds "

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1...ut-not-too-old

" The answer is obvious: they want every conceivable advantage against their aging but still-dangerous nemesis "

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1...friday-mailbag

Pacquiao is a carefully manufactured hype-job, he simply will not fight an opponent unless that opponent is at a significant disadvantage.

" a good fighter will look great if he holds all of the advantages "

Did you also show this same outrage when Floyd pick JMM as his comeback fight? If so, cool...You are not as onesided as I thought.

If not, you should be completely fine with this...Look, Manny most likely will not come in at 147 or over it. JMM may come in at the same weight, or maybe a pound or two less (I have seen nothing that say's JMM has to come in at 147, or else!). Floyd had many advantages over JMM, and he still landed shots, and looked himself in that fight (the weight jump didn't seem to bother him that much). Floyd is just a damn good fighter.

Manny will take more chances than Floyd, giving JMM a chance to do what he does.

As far as Freddie's comments, I mean, Manny is not yet a full welterweight. That much is true. He is still competing there though. So maybe the line of thinking is trying to keep him consistant with the weight...I don't know (nor do I pretend to know). Hell, they may even have the mind set of "you want him, come get him (at 147)"...

Anyway, it is a fight that manys fans have been calling for, and saying that he (Manny) is ducking (just like the Mosley fight), now that he may take it, it's a problem...The man can't seem to win for losing in the eye's of some fans.

[LeadUppercut]

Did you also show this same outrage when Floyd pick JMM as his comeback fight? If so, cool...You are not as onesided as I thought.

Yep, absolutely.

It was a b1tch-move to market that fight as a competitive matchup.

And, it was also a b1tch-move to re-negotiate the contract two weeks before the fight so that Mayweather could save $400k on the weight penalty he incurred for most likely not even making a serious attempt at 144.

But Manny is much worse, because according to Freddie Roach and Alex Ariza, Pac is a natural junior welterweight and can easily make 140..... whereas Mayweather is a natural welter and should not be required to fight any lower than 147 in a genuinely competitive matchup.

Plus, catch-weight's suck, but it would be nice to see Manny "catch-weight" Pacquiao at least attempt to make this fight look like anything other than a setup.

Team Pacquiao are simply becoming masters at manipulating advantages.

Come on man, you must have been watching

A vacant title at 154, held at catch-weight, against a bum who could not have beaten any of the top welters, and wearing 8oz gloves..... ring a bell?

Marquez is the last Pacquiao opponent who wasn't at a disadvantage, and we all saw what happened there.

If not, you should be completely fine with this...Look, Manny most likely will not come in at 147 or over it. JMM may come in at the same weight, or maybe a pound or two less (I have seen nothing that say's JMM has to come in at 147, or else!). Floyd had many advantages over JMM, and he still landed shots, and looked himself in that fight (the weight jump didn't seem to bother him that much). Floyd is just a damn good fighter.

That is not the point, and you know it. And I am getting damned sick and tired of hearing weak excuses justifying why I should let poor wee Pac "slide" on the blatantly obvious manipulation of advantages.

See post 648.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...470537&page=65

What..... for his last 7 fights since Marquez ?

Coincidence ?




I will go a little further with that post. The most obvious manipulation from Team Pacquiao almost certainly involves Roach and the TR matchmakers, likely Trampler and co. Aside from the obvious skills/intangibles required, a fighter who is "on top of his game" is one of the most dangerous opponents that any fighter could face. Roach knows that the confidence and self-belief a fighter has when he is on top of his game, is a HUGE part of a champions makeup and mindset.

Kinda like where Ortiz is at right now.

The fact that not one of Manny's last 7 opponents have possessed that quality..... is NO COINCIDENCE !!

In answer to your question as to why Manny should fight Marquez at 140.....

* because he is a natural JWW, and can easily make 140
* because it would be a fairer contest
* because it would be better for boxing
* because it would be better for Manny's legacy
* because Pac is looking b1tch-made for fighting disadvantaged opponents

As far as Freddie's comments, I mean, Manny is not yet a full welterweight. That much is true. He is still competing there though. So maybe the line of thinking is trying to keep him consistant with the weight...I don't know (nor do I pretend to know). Hell, they may even have the mind set of "you want him, come get him (at 147)"...

No dude.

I think it is pretty obvious that the trend of manipulating advantages and winning fights on the scales that began in 2008..... is continuing.

Not only is Manny a natural JWW who can easily make 140, but when he is training, Ariza just can't keep any weight on Manny. Pac burns it off, he has to eat 6 meals a day and 3am/6am shakes in order to fight at welter.....

http://www.examiner.com/fight-sports...t-middleweight
http://www.strengthspeedagility.com/...aining-program
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/g...ible-physique/
http://www.pacquiao-margarito.com/en...-inner-circle/
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleid=621958
http://ezinearticles.com/?Boxing-Rin...nce&id=2546429
http://www.pacquiaovsmargarito.net/w...ight-pacquiao/
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/g...ment-at-first/
http://espn.go.com/sports/boxing/blo...o-inner-circle

For ***'s sake, Katsidis was the first fight where Marquez even looked comfortable at lightweight..... dragging him up to welter is a blatant b1tch-move.

I answered your questions honestly, so return me the favor...
...what did you think of Mayweather picking JMM as his comeback opponent?

Then, tell me why Pac is not far worse, because he can easily make 140 ?

Be honest, what did you think of Mayweather fighting Marquez at welter ?

Anyway, it is a fight that manys fans have been calling for, and saying that he (Manny) is ducking (just like the Mosley fight), now that he may take it, it's a problem...The man can't seem to win for losing in the eye's of some fans.

But that's my point entirely, Pac did not take either of those fights until both of those guys were disadvantaged. He turned down Mosley twice after he beat Marg, and instead went and fought that idiot Clottey and the broken punch-bag Margarito.

Then, after getting licked by Mayweather and uglied by Mora..... Shane is the man. The "not on top of my game" trend continues.

The same with Marquez......

If JMM/Pac II did not demand a rematch, then what fkn fight did ?

Now, Pac will fight Marquez after seeing that he can't hang at 147.

The 147 demand for Marquez is a total b1tch-move from Manny "catchweight" Pacquiao imo..... what next from the Manny-circus?

[lfc19titles]

if marquez comes in his natural form like he did against kats at 144 in the ring then what does it matter if the fight is at 147? both will still be the same

regardless i hope to god this fight doesnt happen but you cant blame them, so many idiots here were saying manny is ducking pac by fighting mosley instead, now those same people will vanish

[LeadUppercut]

Did you also show this same outrage when Floyd pick JMM as his comeback fight? If so, cool...You are not as onesided as I thought.

If not, you should be completely fine with this...Look, Manny most likely will not come in at 147 or over it. JMM may come in at the same weight, or maybe a pound or two less (I have seen nothing that say's JMM has to come in at 147, or else!). Floyd had many advantages over JMM, and he still landed shots, and looked himself in that fight (the weight jump didn't seem to bother him that much). Floyd is just a damn good fighter.

Manny will take more chances than Floyd, giving JMM a chance to do what he does.

As far as Freddie's comments, I mean, Manny is not yet a full welterweight. That much is true. He is still competing there though. So maybe the line of thinking is trying to keep him consistant with the weight...I don't know (nor do I pretend to know). Hell, they may even have the mind set of "you want him, come get him (at 147)"...

Anyway, it is a fight that manys fans have been calling for, and saying that he (Manny) is ducking (just like the Mosley fight), now that he may take it, it's a problem...The man can't seem to win for losing in the eye's of some fans.

HandSpeed, tell me honestly, what did you think of Mayweather selecting Marquez as his comeback opponent?

And, why should those same standards not be expected from Manny ?

I am not really into the Floyd-vs-Manny thing, it annoys me that when confronted with issues regarding Manny, Pac-fan's often reply "oh, but Floyd.....".

I do not believe that two wrong's make a right, or that the actions of another man should excuse your own..... so please don't tell me it is ok because Floyd did it

Tell me honestly what you thought of Mayweather's comeback opponent ?

At least Floyd was coming back after a layoff, what is Manny's excuse ?

How is it not far worse for Manny to drag the lightweight Marquez up TWO DIVISIONS to welter, when he himself can easily make 140?

Two words..... *****-made.

[HandSpeed303]

HandSpeed, tell me honestly, what did you think of Mayweather selecting Marquez as his comeback opponent?

And, why should those same standards not be expected from Manny ?

I am not really into the Floyd-vs-Manny thing, it annoys me that when confronted with issues regarding Manny, Pac-fan's often reply "oh, but Floyd.....".

I do not believe that two wrong's make a right, or that the actions of another man should excuse your own..... so please don't tell me it is ok because Floyd did it

Tell me honestly what you thought of Mayweather's comeback opponent ?

At least Floyd was coming back after a layoff, what is Manny's excuse ?

How is it not far worse for Manny to drag the lightweight Marquez up TWO DIVISIONS to welter, when he himself can easily make 140?

Two words..... *****-made.

1st: I'm not the biggest Pac fan (the level of me being a Pac fan, is about the same as I am a Floyd fan. So me bringing up Floyd up as an example was not to slander him...Simply the most recent case (also the only if i'm correct) of JMM coming up to 147)...

2nd: Do to Floyd's layoff, and the position that JMM sat at in the P4P rankings, I was okay with the fight. I honestly thought it would be a better fight. Also, do to the injury Floyd had in training, and the delay to the fight, I figured it would give JMM a better chance to make weight. So all in all, I didn't bit*h about Floyd fighting JMM (as many did).

I do understand that two wrongs don't make a right, I just hate how folks have such short memories when it comes to Pac. One thing is okay for one fighter, but is an outrage if Pac does it.

Really though, I feel the same why about this as I do catchweights...If the fighter agrees (as JMM has said he will beat Manny at any weight), than there is really not much that can be said...Sure, as a fan you can choose to disagree, but that's it. Not really going to change the fact that they agreed to fight at 147 (if that is what they choose).

Lastly: Why do you feel that Manny is obligated to fight JMM at 140? Is it cause of that Roach quote? Even still, Manny is not bond by anything to fight JMM at that weight.

[HandSpeed303]

Yep, absolutely.

It was a b1tch-move to market that fight as a competitive matchup.

And, it was also a b1tch-move to re-negotiate the contract two weeks before the fight so that Mayweather could save $400k on the weight penalty he incurred for most likely not even making a serious attempt at 144.

But Manny is much worse, because according to Freddie Roach and Alex Ariza, Pac is a natural junior welterweight and can easily make 140..... whereas Mayweather is a natural welter and should not be required to fight any lower than 147 in a genuinely competitive matchup.

Plus, catch-weight's suck, but it would be nice to see Manny "catch-weight" Pacquiao at least attempt to make this fight look like anything other than a setup.

Team Pacquiao are simply becoming masters at manipulating advantages.

Come on man, you must have been watching

A vacant title at 154, held at catch-weight, against a bum who could not have beaten any of the top welters, and wearing 8oz gloves..... ring a bell?

Marquez is the last Pacquiao opponent who wasn't at a disadvantage, and we all saw what happened there.



That is not the point, and you know it. And I am getting damned sick and tired of hearing weak excuses justifying why I should let poor wee Pac "slide" on the blatantly obvious manipulation of advantages.

See post 648.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...470537&page=65

What..... for his last 7 fights since Marquez ?

Coincidence ?




I will go a little further with that post. The most obvious manipulation from Team Pacquiao almost certainly involves Roach and the TR matchmakers, likely Trampler and co. Aside from the obvious skills/intangibles required, a fighter who is "on top of his game" is one of the most dangerous opponents that any fighter could face. Roach knows that the confidence and self-belief a fighter has when he is on top of his game, is a HUGE part of a champions makeup and mindset.

Kinda like where Ortiz is at right now.

The fact that not one of Manny's last 7 opponents have possessed that quality..... is NO COINCIDENCE !!

In answer to your question as to why Manny should fight Marquez at 140.....

* because he is a natural JWW, and can easily make 140
* because it would be a fairer contest
* because it would be better for boxing
* because it would be better for Manny's legacy
* because Pac is looking b1tch-made for fighting disadvantaged opponents



No dude.

I think it is pretty obvious that the trend of manipulating advantages and winning fights on the scales that began in 2008..... is continuing.

Not only is Manny a natural JWW who can easily make 140, but when he is training, Ariza just can't keep any weight on Manny. Pac burns it off, he has to eat 6 meals a day and 3am/6am shakes in order to fight at welter.....

http://www.examiner.com/fight-sports...t-middleweight
http://www.strengthspeedagility.com/...aining-program
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/g...ible-physique/
http://www.pacquiao-margarito.com/en...-inner-circle/
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleid=621958
http://ezinearticles.com/?Boxing-Rin...nce&id=2546429
http://www.pacquiaovsmargarito.net/w...ight-pacquiao/
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/g...ment-at-first/
http://espn.go.com/sports/boxing/blo...o-inner-circle

For ***'s sake, Katsidis was the first fight where Marquez even looked comfortable at lightweight..... dragging him up to welter is a blatant b1tch-move.

I answered your questions honestly, so return me the favor...
...what did you think of Mayweather picking JMM as his comeback opponent?

Then, tell me why Pac is not far worse, because he can easily make 140 ?

Be honest, what did you think of Mayweather fighting Marquez at welter ?



But that's my point entirely, Pac did not take either of those fights until both of those guys were disadvantaged. He turned down Mosley twice after he beat Marg, and instead went and fought that idiot Clottey and the broken punch-bag Margarito.

Then, after getting licked by Mayweather and uglied by Mora..... Shane is the man. The "not on top of my game" trend continues.

The same with Marquez......

If JMM/Pac II did not demand a rematch, then what fkn fight did ?

Now, Pac will fight Marquez after seeing that he can't hang at 147.

The 147 demand for Marquez is a total b1tch-move from Manny "catchweight" Pacquiao imo..... what next from the Manny-circus?

LOL!...I'm not making any excuses for Manny. As I said, I don't pretend to know the line of thinking. Many boxers pick advantages for fights, Ring size, gloves, etc...This is nothing new.

In the eye's of many, Manny is the man, and has earned his right to call the shots.

Now look, before you go to far (as I can see you are very close to doing) I have not agreed with everything Manny has been doing lately.

That is the main reason I have picked him to lose his last three fights (Clottey, Margo, and now Shane)!

I have been drinking, and there is so much going on in the above post, I will touch on it later.

I just really need to make it clear to you, you are not dealing with a ******* here...I really don't like the hate a fighter gets from fans with and obvious agenda...Felt the same about Floyd (or any other fighter that was on top). I'm just not a hater/hateful person/hateful fan/hate monger...

Also: I'm sure Manny will get around to Ortiz in due time.

[LeadUppercut]

1st: I'm not the biggest Pac fan (the level of me being a Pac fan, is about the same as I am a Floyd fan. So me bringing up Floyd up as an example was not to slander him...Simply the most recent case (also the only if i'm correct) of JMM coming up to 147).

Fair call, good point.

2nd: Do to Floyd's layoff, and the position that JMM sat at in the P4P rankings, I was okay with the fight. I honestly thought it would be a better fight. Also, do to the injury Floyd had in training, and the delay to the fight, I figured it would give JMM a better chance to make weight. So all in all, I didn't bit*h about Floyd fighting JMM (as many did).

Another fair call, but you have to admit, it was highly unlikely that Marquez would be competitive in that fight. We are talking a lightweight jumping two divisions to fight Mayweather here.

Three things had to happen for Marquez to be competitive in that fight.....

1.) he had to take most of his power to 144
2.) he had to take all of his speed to 144
3.) Mayweather had to be affected by the weight and the lay-off

None of those things happened.

I do understand that two wrongs don't make a right, I just hate how folks have such short memories when it comes to Pac. One thing is okay for one fighter, but is an outrage if Pac does it.

Ummm..... as I proved in my post above. That is ******* territory.

Mayweather was a cherry-picker, but Manny is a hero, even though he is a natural JWW and can easily make 140

Really though, I feel the same why about this as I do catchweights...If the fighter agrees (as JMM has said he will beat Manny at any weight), than there is really not much that can be said...Sure, as a fan you can choose to disagree, but that's it. Not really going to change the fact that they agreed to fight at 147 (if that is what they choose).

Agreed, catch-weight's are ****.

But, it is hilarious that Manny "catch-weight" Pacquiao will not defend his JMW title against a genuine JMW because it would not be "fair"..... and he needed a catch-weight against Cotto and Margarito because it would not be "fair"..... but he will not even consider a catch-weight for Marquez, because it is "fair" for the 38yo midget to jump TWO DIVISIONS to welter..... higher than when Manny won his welterweight title.

Dude, you are drinking the Manny cool-aid if you accept that fkn rubbish.

That is P4P pu55y right there.

I cannot respect someone who credits that chicken-**** rubbish.

Lastly: Why do you feel that Manny is obligated to fight JMM at 140? Is it cause of that Roach quote? Even still, Manny is not bond by anything to fight JMM at that weight.

I answered that question earlier.....

* because he is a natural JWW, and can easily make 140
* because it would be a fairer contest
* because it would be better for boxing
* because it would be better for Manny's legacy
* because Pac is looking b1tch-made for fighting his 8th consecutive disadvantaged opponent

I just really need to make it clear to you, you are not dealing with a ******* here...I really don't like the hate a fighter gets from fans with and obvious agenda...Felt the same about Floyd (or any other fighter that was on top). I'm just not a hater/hateful person/hateful fan/hate monger.

Dude, I do not spend this much time with *******s

If you had not appeared knowledgable and honest, my posts would be considerably shorter, and much more "on-the-nose".

I have NO TIME AT ALL for unknowledgable dishonest flag-waving pac-fan's. Key-word..... dishonest

But, my earlier comment stands.....

"But, it is hilarious that Manny "catch-weight" Pacquiao will not defend his JMW title against a genuine JMW because it would not be "fair"..... and he needed a catch-weight against Cotto and Margarito because it would not be "fair"..... but he will not even consider a catch-weight for Marquez, because it is "fair" for the 38yo midget to jump TWO DIVISIONS to welter..... higher than when Manny won his welterweight title.

Dude, you are drinking the Manny cool-aid if you accept that fkn rubbish"

Good post man, I respect your point-of-view, and enjoy the back-and-forth.

Also: I'm sure Manny will get around to Ortiz in due time.

It will NEVER happen.

Ortiz is the polar-opposite of Manny's last 7 opponents.

He is not in " the plan ".