Updated Ring rankings...Ortiz debuts as #3 WW

[Eaner0919]

Bika was a top 6 guy at SMW who honestly should have been in the super six himself.

I think that's an underrated win. Bika is a tough fight for any man.

But I agree his resume isn't as good as froch's but "pound 4 pound" isn't just always about resume it is about skill, look at nonito donaire he was very highly ranked before he beat montiel and only big name on his resume was Vic at the time.

it's purely opinion. I personally think ward is one of the best fighters but i'm not going to argue if someone wants to have froch on the top 10 instead.

I think it's debatable that he was top 6 IMO. Top ten maybe but even then I wouldn't necessarily call it anything other than a workman like win for Ward considering from Manfredo to Mendy (for an eliminator mind you) he had exactly one fight over no one of note (almost a two year span)

and yes I am perfectly aware of what P4P means but I think where one area is lacking there should be reason to debate and I think that's why a lot of people openly did question why Donaire was even on people's P4P lists in spite of having only one big win in his career.

that's the same boat, IMO, that Ward is in. Not saying he isn't talented or that in question to be deserving but when someone counters that he has one of the better resumes around I do call into question whether they have actually seen his resume at all.

[TheSlickster]

If Froch did defeat Kessler, he'd definitely have a case of possibly being higher than Ward. Ward dominated the Favorite of the Super Six, the first to have a shutout of a Super Six contender, and had a consistent win against Bika who i think was ranked #6.

Froch defeated Direll in a controversial decision that didn't really improve his ranking that much, LOST to Kessler who just came out of a huge defeat, and although he destroyed Abraham in amazing fashion that surprised me... How could Froch be higher P4P than Ward since Ward has only gained momentum?

If Froch defeats Glenn Johnson in epic fashion, he'll definitely deserve to be close to Ward but i don't see Froch having an easy time with The Road Warrior plus don't forget Ward will most likely destroy Abraham to where his rating will just get even higher.

[IronDanHamza]

wonjongkam last 3 opponents 1-2, 0-2 and 1-3,6 fights before that he fought 3 boxers debuting in a row and right before that fought a 0-1,maybe at one time but come on

Those fights were all in the space of 3 months.

When he fought those fighting on their debut he is merely fighting them to stay active. They were like a month apart from each other..

Who does he fight when he's not fighting those? The Naito's and Kameda's of the division.

He is the Lineal Champion at Flyweight and has an insane amount of title defenses. And before you say it, when he fights those stay busy fights he does not defend his title.

He has been considered THE best Flyweight in the world for a long time now. He utterly deserves to be on that list.

[Ko King 212]

So we giving Froch credit for beating JT.

Lord have mercy....lol

[Eaner0919]

lol why debate it,

because you said it not I and this is a boxing messageboard where we do discuss things like this

if you don't like debating things then maybe try facebook or twitter.

you believe what you believe, ever since his 12th fight he has name solid wins and names. Green and Bika both solid wins

Green has been hyped up since the JDon fight. He is good when he has an opponent in front of him that is inferior to him but the moment he steps up he folds like a chair. Also, Glen Johnson beat him easier than Ward did so does that mean Johnson's victory has more weight than Ward's?

Miranda was his mando.

what mando? they fought for fringe regional titles. LOL

and what should it matter whether he was or not being a mando does nto necessarily make you good. Most people crapped all over this fight when it was made or do you forget that? Considering two fights prior he was getting beaten all over the ring by Abraham.

Domination of Kessler.

I gave credit for that

How can you discredit his resume

I didn't and I am not but when someone goes out on a limb and states it's one of the best around let alone in his division I question that.

Froch is not top ten because he lost to Kessler, if he had beat Kessler then you have an argument.

and I agree that's the only thing that people go use as a reason why Froch shouldn't be considered for P4P yet he fought a fairly spirited fight against Kessler.

Is his Taylor win that impressive, getting outboxed and Taylor did his usual gas out, with his weak chin.

it's a good to okay win I would say above what a Green win for Ward would be but not a great one.

Pascal name is big on his resume now because of his win over Dawson.

and aspect that Pascal is a pretty darn good fighter with some good skills, something you say is also needed to be considered P4P.

[Kagami Taiga]

So we giving Froch credit for beating JT.

Lord have mercy....lol

he deserves credit, but not as much as ppl seem to think he does. he looked pretty bad in that fight until the later rounds. take it for what u want. same thing with the dirrell fight. he looked bad. same thing with the kessler fight, he wasnt impressive.

and with that, is there a question why hes not on the p4p list? i wouldnt argue if he was...but im not gonna sit here and argue that he should be either.

[-Boxzilla-]

Wards Kessler win is impressive but besides that his resume isn't great. And when u compare performances of his wins vs how other people beat them it's even less impressive. Green was beaten much more impressively by johnson. Miranda and especially bika were beaten much more impressively by bute. Donairs talent with athleticism is evident that's a different story. you can't say the same thing about ward when others are doing it better then him with the same guys.

[Kagami Taiga]

Wards Kessler win is impressive but besides that his resume isn't great. And when u compare performances of his wins vs how other people beat them it's even less impressive. Green was beaten much more impressively by johnson. Miranda and especially bika were beaten much more impressively by bute. Donairs talent with athleticism is evident that's a different story. you can't say the same thing about ward when others are doing it better then him with the same guys.

stopped reading rite here. if ur impressed with just a knock out, then yea. but dont make it seem like ward didnt dominate green. and ur point is moot. he dominated all of those guys in one sided victories. so he didnt knock them out. hes not that type of fighter. i hate straw man arguments like these. lets act like these fights werent close plz.

[-Boxzilla-]

stopped reading rite here. if ur impressed with just a knock out, then yea. but dont make it seem like ward didnt dominate green. and ur point is moot. he dominated all of those guys in one sided victories. so he didnt knock them out. hes not that type of fighter. i hate straw man arguments like these. lets act like these fights werent close plz.

The bika fight was much closer then the cards reflected and yes i Expect from p4p rated fighters impressive victories. Not clinch fests and dragging guys to the ropes and 'going to work'. Holding clinching and while you do that hitting is against the rules of boxing. That's what mma fighters do to guys who are better the them in stand up. I expect more from p4p top 10 boxers. And I won't praise a guy for winning like that just cause he's American.

And how other fighters perform and beat the same fighters is always going to factor my assessment of boxers.

[Kagami Taiga]

The bika fight was much closer then the cards reflected and yes i Expect from p4p rated fighters impressive victories. Not clinch fests and dragging guys to the ropes and 'going to work'. Holding clinching and while you do that hitting is against the rules of boxing. That's what mma fighters do to guys who are better the them in stand up. I expect more from p4p top 10 boxers. And I won't praise a guy for winning like that just cause he's American.

And how other fighters perform and beat the same fighters is always going to factor my assessment of the both fighters

so basically, ur argument is u dont like his style? well ok...but thats ur personal preference. to me, there are more than one way to fight and dominate an oppnenet. ward has been dominant for the last 3 yrs or so. many ppl have said they see a p4p fighter in him. hes no hypejob and he doesnt do much talking. if u dont like how he fights, thats one thing.