Why is it that Cotto and Margarito get called warriors?

[BorderPatrol]

So moving up in weight to take on someone bigger and stronger than you isn't challenging?

NO not if his name is Baldomir or Gatti. No... Just stop it man. Floyd is the antithesis of warrior.

[Evil Abed]

interesitng post you have here. Almost everyone respects Ali, but you don't see him being called warrior much. He even had to take punishment later in his career when his legs were gone.

Ali was a stick and move boxer for the majority of his career.

The only reason he he took excess damage later in his career was because of speed+reflex decline(And a huge ego). I personally consider him a warrior. But I understand why hes not always thrown into that category.

[studentofthegam]

Ni, Mayweather just didn't fight like that, unless he was forced into it. I don't recall him beating up any of the "punching bags" that he sometimes faced. He would show off his jab, his sneak right hand, his footwork, his confidence etc.

He fought VERY boring fights as far as fight fans then were concerned, and never drew a crowd. The commentators used to talk about it during the fight, how well he fought, but how few seats were filled, etc.

It was common knowledge, yet you never hear anyone mentioning it today, and he still is basically the same boxer.

Nothing sneaky about Gatti's beating at 140. Nothing sneaky about dismantling N'dou. Nothing sneaky about Hernandez. He damn sure didnt sneak punches against Augustus and Manfredy. Your argument holds no weight. None of those fights were boring by anyone's standards. They didnt draw any crowds? Name the fighter in the lower weight classes fromthe US at that time that jumped on the seen with a strong fan base??????? Answer: none. Had to build it up. Dont change the subject.

[edgarg]

When Robinson was fighting, ALL fighters more or less were what we today would call "warriors". Look at Robinson Fullmer, Robinson-Basilio, etc. They were "white, and certainly by today' standards, outstanding warriors.

I suppose that the vast majority were more concerned with making sure the fans enjoyed their showing enough to come back again when they was fighting. Also trying more to keep "food on the table" than winning titles with zero losses

I really used to admire a guy no-one today has ever heard of, Harold Johnson, who could have shown Floyd Mayweather what REAL skilful boxing was all about. Johnson was a career Lt.Heavy and beat Ezzard Charles a year or two before his Marciano fights. He also beat Archie Moore, another great fighter, when he, Johnson was very young, about 21, once fighting him 3 times in a couple of months. (And many top heavyweights like Eddie Machen, Nino Valdez, Bert Whitehurst etc). He beat Moore once and was just a hairsbreath from taking the title from him when he walked into a punch in about the 13th or 14th rd. It was a crime.

I still have the RING copy somewhere, where it was written that the ONLY boxer with a good chance to beat Liston was Harold Johnson. This was before Liston fought Patterson but was regarded as unbeatable and the uncrowned king.

[edgarg]

Nothing sneaky about Gatti's beating at 140. Nothing sneaky about dismantling N'dou. Nothing sneaky about Hernandez. He damn sure didnt sneak punches against Augustus and Manfredy. Your argument holds no weight. None of those fights were boring by anyone's standards. They didnt draw any crowds? Name the fighter in the lower weight classes fromthe US at that time that jumped on the seen with a strong fan base??????? Answer: none. Had to build it up. Dont change the subject.

You haven't read my posts tonight. I wrote that Augustus and Castillo were where he had to get down and really fight. And they happen to be about the only 2 Mayweather fights I like. The Hernandez fight was his usual style, maybe a little more intense I think, for his first title. He was never in the slightest difficulty. It's a long time ago and I don't look up Boxrec like you guys but talk about what I've read and seen.

Look I can prove what I'm saying as I happen to have about 100-130 or more, video tapes, full of fights many of them those we talk so much about, and the comments are there. each tape has probably 7-10 fights, depending on the lengths. I used to replay them, going right through them and then starting all over again. Also a complete carton of RING, BOXING ILLUSTRATED ( from the very 1st issue) and others, going back to the late 1940's. My older brother used to get them in Ireland. When I moved to Canada I got them mailed monthly.

Mayweather is a supreme exponent of the hit and not be hit kind of boxer, he NEVER takes chances, and NEVER takes ANY fight he feels he is not CERTAIN to win. He makes sure he has some sort of "definitive edge" for every fight.

A pefect example is the Corrales fight. He waited until Corrales was not only entangled domestically and already sentenced to prison, but was financially bankrupt and couldn't even pay his unsuccessful lawyers, AND had already left the 130 lb class, and then, knowing he had ANYTHING but boxing on his mind and was desperate for money, got his Brains Trust to make the fight.

As Corrales said on TV, before the fight, to explain why he was fighting at 130 when he wasn't able to make the weight any more and had "gone up".. he said....."well, yes, it's very hard to make the weight, but they made me an offer I couldn't refuse....".

The poor guy turned up to the weigh-in practically a skeleton, weak, and had been in a sweatbox forever, maybe longer. He failed the first weigh-in I think. TK Stewart the well known boxing writer was there and wrote, that "as soon as I saw him, grey skin, nothing but bones, and could barely walk, I KNEW he had no chance of winning...."

As I said, Mayweather was WELL KNOWN for making sure he had an "edge" against all his opponents. Doesn't mean he's a not a fine boxer...........

[-Spinal-]

Your completely wrong.

Being a warrior is a characteristic or style.

Those fighters you mentioned may not be warriors but that dosen't make them better or worse.

They are great in their own way.

Duran is considered a warrior by most. Hes in the same conversation as SRL in terms of greatness.

One used finesse and other used brute force. The label "warrior" doesn't mean hes better or worse then SRL.

Ultimately it comes down to who you fought and who you beat when discussing ATG's. Style has little to do with it.

Color of the skin is such a small determination on whether you can be a "warrior" or not.

Aron Pryor was considered a warrior.

Evander Holyfield was always called a warrior.

Joe Frazier and so on.

None-blacks don't own warrior.

Warrior=Limited fighter with a lot of heart and determination.



That's just my opinion though. We can agree to disagree


BTW the black fighters you say are called warriors, your post is the first time I see them being referred to as warriors but I probably just missed all the other times, maybe on tv documentaries? or threads I missed back in 2002-2005 of boxingscene? I don't know, never seen black fighters being referred to as warriors by the boxing public. But it's interesting if they are. Evander Holyfield def has warrior mentality but he was a very skilled HW, I know Pryor known more of a puncher "fighter", than a skilled "boxer", so I can understand some of those you listed falling in to the category of warriors.

[lx!!]

Floyd made Marquez jump up 2 weight classes and floyd didn't even make weight.

Floyd made Hatton jump up a weight class when he was the lineal champ at 140.

Floyd doesn't like to trade. He fights scared in every fight. He pot shots, clinches and gets on his bicycle every fight. He is the complete opposite of a warrior, hes a ****ing pu$$y

Exactly my opinion too. Floyd never takes a risk he's a safety first boxer.

[edgarg]

Nothing sneaky about Gatti's beating at 140. Nothing sneaky about dismantling N'dou. Nothing sneaky about Hernandez. He damn sure didnt sneak punches against Augustus and Manfredy. Your argument holds no weight. None of those fights were boring by anyone's standards. They didnt draw any crowds? Name the fighter in the lower weight classes fromthe US at that time that jumped on the seen with a strong fan base??????? Answer: none. Had to build it up. Dont change the subject.

Maybe you'd better do some more "studying" Mr. StudentOfTheGame. The lighter weights did not draw large crowds generally as headliners, BUT the venues chosen were scaled down to the expected crowds.

I'm saying, and can PROVE it, that Mayweather's fights were ALWAYS sparsely attended, to such a degree, that the analysts and commentators used to discuss this whilst the fight was in progress. The would say things like, "one of the only good boxers I've ever seen who cna't even half fill a small hall"... and make comments on the fight goers actually leaving the arenas whilst Mayweather was fighting.

I'm fed up repeating this tonight. Why don't you read some of my back posts, where I have said the same thing several times. Larry Merchant, whatever he may say now, is on tape, and I HAVE IT, talking about the usual Mayweather fight where he stinks out the arena, and pointing out how few fans are there etc.etc.

I'm not saying he's not a good boxer (as distinct from a fighter) he is. But to me, he fights just the same as he always has, and I don't know where his sudden popularity came from.
Some say it was after fighting Oscar. But Oscar was already a part time fighter then and only in it for the money.....and LONG past his best. So to me it was no great achievement.

I don't care anyway, I'm tired of the name Mayweather.

[check hook]

Mayweather isn't a warrior because everyones myopic definition of a warrior in boxing is invariably someone who gets hit often, which isn't Mayweather.

[studentofthegam]

You haven't read my posts tonight. I wrote that Augustus and Castillo were where he had to get down and really fight. And they happen to be about the only 2 Mayweather fights I like. The Hernandez fight was his usual style, maybe a little more intense I think, for his first title. He was never in the slightest difficulty. It's a long time ago and I don't look up Boxrec like you guys but talk about what I've read and seen.

Look I can prove what I'm saying as I happen to have about 100-130 or more, video tapes, full of fights many of them those we talk so much about, and the comments are there. each tape has probably 7-10 fights, depending on the lengths. I used to replay them, going right through them and then starting all over again. Also a complete carton of RING, BOXING ILLUSTRATED ( from the very 1st issue) and others, going back to the late 1940's. My older brother used to get them in Ireland. When I moved to Canada I got them mailed monthly.

Mayweather is a supreme exponent of the hit and not be hit kind of boxer, he NEVER takes chances, and NEVER takes ANY fight he feels he is not CERTAIN to win. He makes sure he has some sort of "definitive edge" for every fight.

A pefect example is the Corrales fight. He waited until Corrales was not only entangled domestically and already sentenced to prison, but was financially bankrupt and couldn't even pay his unsuccessful lawyers, AND had already left the 130 lb class, and then, knowing he had ANYTHING but boxing on his mind and was desperate for money, got his Brains Trust to make the fight.

As Corrales said on TV, before the fight, to explain why he was fighting at 130 when he wasn't able to make the weight any more and had "gone up".. he said....."well, yes, it's very hard to make the weight, but they made me an offer I couldn't refuse....".

The poor guy turned up to the weigh-in practically a skeleton, weak, and had been in a sweatbox forever, maybe longer. He failed the first weigh-in I think. TK Stewart the well known boxing writer was there and wrote, that "as soon as I saw him, grey skin, nothing but bones, and could barely walk, I KNEW he had no chance of winning...."

As I said, Mayweather was WELL KNOWN for making sure he had an "edge" against all his opponents. Doesn't mean he's a not a fine boxer...........

Maybe you'd better do some more "studying" Mr. StudentOfTheGame. The lighter weights did not draw large crowds generally as headliners, BUT the venues chosen were scaled down to the expected crowds.

I'm saying, and can PROVE it, that Mayweather's fights were ALWAYS sparsely attended, to such a degree, that the analysts and commentators used to discuss this whilst the fight was in progress. The would say things like, "one of the only good boxers I've ever seen who cna't even half fill a small hall"... and make comments on the fight goers actually leaving the arenas whilst Mayweather was fighting.

I'm fed up repeating this tonight. Why don't you read some of my back posts, where I have said the same thing several times. Larry Merchant, whatever he may say now, is on tape, and I HAVE IT, talking about the usual Mayweather fight where he stinks out the arena, and pointing out how few fans are there etc.etc.

I'm not saying he's not a good boxer (as distinct from a fighter) he is. But to me, he fights just the same as he always has, and I don't know where his sudden popularity came from.
Some say it was after fighting Oscar. But Oscar was already a part time fighter then and only in it for the money.....and LONG past his best. So to me it was no great achievement.

I don't care anyway, I'm tired of the name Mayweather.

My friend you got frustrated when you realized you didnt have a clue about those fights. LOL. And you're giving it away by over compensating "knowledge". I didnt need boxrec for these. I watched them live. How the hell can you judge excitement through boxrec anyway? Im gonna do you a favor. I think most of these I brought up are in these clips. Its not about challenging your boxing wits. Its simply I dont want someoone else to embarrass you when you say Floyd's whole career has been "sneaky punches".