Dear Sergio, P4P means challenging fighters up the weight ladder, not downward...

[Steak]

That's not really because they become popular, it's because it's a mega ****ing win, no? Legacy-wise.

well, popularity maybe wasnt the perfect word, but all I meant was that amongst the boxing community he would have gained a huge amount of new respect, despite the fact he was the bigger man and everything.

people can talk all they want, but in the end if Martinez KOed Pacquiao, he would clearly end up being rated p4p#1 by most major boxing publications.

not that it makes Martinez a superior fighter p4p in terms of all time ranking, but thats just the way it works.

[IMDAZED]

well, popularity maybe wasnt the perfect word, but all I meant was that amongst the boxing community he would have gained a huge amount of new respect, despite the fact he was the bigger man and everything.

people can talk all they want, but in the end if Martinez KOed Pacquiao, he would clearly end up being rated p4p#1 by most major boxing publications.

not that it makes Martinez a superior fighter p4p in terms of all time ranking, but thats just the way it works.

Agreed. But, to be fair, Hopkins being the bigger man wasn't forgotten. He was a heavy underdog because Tito had just flattened Joppy and destroyed the top two 154lbers prior to that. He even out-weighed Hopkins at the weigh-in.

[Steak]

trinidad was actually at middleweight and had just beaten the 2nd best middleweight in the world. pac, may and cotto have never even fought there. big difference.

this is true, but I was assuming that Martinez for Pac, Floyd and Cotto would have come down to 154.

and its not that I agree with it, but if Martinez beat Floyd or Pac, he would be rated #1 by most major boxing publications.

[Steak]

Agreed. But, to be fair, Hopkins being the bigger man wasn't forgotten. He was a heavy underdog because Tito had just flattened Joppy and destroyed the top two 154lbers prior to that. He even out-weighed Hopkins at the weigh-in.

perhaps it wasnt the perfect example, but in hindsight most people look at Trinidad as a 'blown up' Welterweight, even though that isnt true and he was clearly doing very well at MW.
I just decided to use it since most people would know what Im talking about.

[IMDAZED]

perhaps it wasnt the perfect example, but in hindsight most people look at Trinidad as a 'blown up' Welterweight, even though that isnt true and he was clearly doing very well at MW.
I just decided to use it since most people would know what Im talking about.

I don't think anyone knowledgeable thinks that. Hell, Tito KO'ed Cherifi in four on his way out. The win is probably still the best of Bernard's career, so it doesn't seem to me that's the popular opinion. In any case, the fight determines what's right. Hopkins proved too good for Tito, not necessarily too big. And if Martinez fought Manny, the same would probably hold true. It isn't so much his as much as it is the skill that goes along with it. That's usually the case with elite fighters.

[Steak]

I don't think anyone knowledgeable thinks that. Hell, Tito KO'ed Cherifi in four on his way out. The win is probably still the best of Bernard's career, so it doesn't seem to me that's the popular opinion. In any case, the fight determines what's right. Hopkins proved too good for Tito, not necessarily too big. And if Martinez fought Manny, the same would probably hold true. It isn't so much his as much as it is the skill that goes along with it. That's usually the case with elite fighters.

Martinez fighting Pacquiao at 160 is too big a stretch to me though. I would need them to fight at 154 for me to give too much credit to Martinez.

[IMDAZED]

Martinez fighting Pacquiao at 160 is too big a stretch to me though. I would need them to fight at 154 for me to give too much credit to Martinez.

Oh no, I don't think they should fight at 160 at all. 154 would be ideal. Not just for Pacquiao, but it would be nice to see Floyd step away from his webcam, take a tune-up then swap blows with Martinez. Both of these guys.

[daggum]

perhaps it wasnt the perfect example, but in hindsight most people look at Trinidad as a 'blown up' Welterweight, even though that isnt true and he was clearly doing very well at MW.
I just decided to use it since most people would know what Im talking about.

most people hate hopkins(especially judges)

[Steak]

most people hate hopkins(especially judges)

well, I pretty much hate him too, hes a jackass.

I still can respect his abilities as a boxer however.

[nj_evoixgsr]

where are all the ppl who were calling foul when the same thing was said about donaire less than a month ago??

maybe you missed the fact that he said stop picking on smaller guys and move up.....donaire was moving up in that fight and will continue to move up and not fighting flyweights? but it's ok.

Your a bit preemptive on this thread. next 2 fights if it's the same **** then we can bump this thread.