The Best Boxer Ever

[Kid Achilles]

Tyson is a rat in a slum, of his own making.

[JUYJUY]

I agree with you but then I'm biased as he is one of my top three all time favorite fighters.

In terms of him being a pound for pound great, it's a no brainer for me. It's because he actually fought larger men who possessed skill and talent (Abe Simon, Buddy Baer, Max Baer etc) and annihilated them whereas guys like Bernard Hopkins were forced to stay at a smaller weight so they could continue to win against physically weaker opponents. Many people have forgotten the true meaning of "pound for pound".

Only Jack Dempsey handled men much bigger than himself in such a manner and most of them weren't as good as the giants Louis faced. Abe Simon for one was better than Michael Grant, Ruddock, and a lot of the contemporary so called skilled big men (230+ lbs). Buddy Baer was a HUGE puncher, very tough, and an accomplished slugger (but he was and is often left in the shadow of his more charismatic brother). Even Carnera, limited as he was, was a better fighter and had a better jab than Grant, McCline and some of the other guys around. He lacked power but was much more skilled than his reputation suggests. Max Schmeling even said he was impressed with Primo's technique in his autobiography and Schmeling didn't bull**** anyone.

I am completely confident that Louis would more than hold his own against the modern heavyweight. He was unreal.

Totally agree.

And Billy Conn out-boxing Joe Louis for 12 rounds at 169lbs is just a tad more impressive than out-boxing John Ruiz for 12 rounds on roids.

[jack_the_rippuh]

Tyson is a rat in a slum, of his own making.

Tyson would have KO'd Joe Louis, you know it.

[Kid Achilles]

God who was it that said he could probably KO Louis? There was actually someone on this forum who was this 250 lb powerlifter and claimed he would have had a chance at Louis just because of his build. Some funny ****.

[druth]

Tyson would have KO'd Joe Louis, you know it.

He never would have had the chance. Tyson can't take a punch, it's been proven time and time again.

For the love of God people, stop, think and understand why Tyson is not a Top 10 heavyweight. Jesus christ get a grip.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

It's hard to imagine anyone being able to outbrawl Tyson in his prime.

Very hard.

Maybe impossible. Tyson comes from a different era. Perhaps when restricted with the genetic patterns and technology of the 1940's, Louis would beat Tyson.

[jack_the_rippuh]

He never would have had the chance. Tyson can't take a punch, it's been proven time and time again.

For the love of God people, stop, think and understand why Tyson is not a Top 10 heavyweight. Jesus christ get a grip.

Tyson can't take a punch?

I stopped reading your ridiculous post from there.

He's only been stopped from an accumulation of punishment.

Let's not forget Joe Louis' suspect defense and chin.

[JUYJUY]

Ali was so technically flawed it was unreal. Basically, Ali didn't know how to properly hold his hands, didn't know how to duck, and just did not know how to parry or block a jab. Ali pulled back or side stepped rather than hold his guard up or duck, why do you think he had so much trouble with Ken Norton who was getting in there and using his jab? Because he couldn't block a jab, or didn't even know how.

Ali was not a very good fighter technically, Roy Jones is another example of a very poor fighter technically. The likes of Ali and Jones Jr just relied on their physical gifts (speed, reflexes, and in Ali's case - chin). Ali was much more hittable in his prime than people seem to think, just watch how many flush right hands he takes from the likes of light-hitting (compared to Louis) fighters like Zora Foley and George Chuvalo, and then please just go and watch how much trouble he has with good left jabs (Norton, Doug Jones), "The Greatest" just would not get away with that **** against Joe Louis. Louis' right hand only travelled about six inches, and it was lightning fast, much faster than anything Ali ever saw, and you had absolutely no warning when it was going to come! If Louis wouldn't eventually catch up with Ali and knock him out with a right cross, he would catch up with him and catch him with the left hook.

If you start from the centre of the ring, it will only take three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time Louis would jab Ali, he would step in and jab him again. Louis held his right glove high (unlike Ali) and that would be the difference, Louis would be blocking Ali's jab with his right hand glove high while punching with him, not slipping or dipping because you don't catch Ali doing that, you catch Ali by jabbing when Ali starts to jab, and you will destroy Ali's rythm doing this. Louis was so smart, he wouldn't lead with left hooks to the head against Ali like all the other suckers, because Louis knows that if he did start throwing left hooks at Ali without intelligent pressure then Ali would pull back towards the ropes and pepper him with counters. Louis would use his jab, and punch with Ali, Ali was a sucker for a good left jab! It would not matter that Ali's jab would "get there first" because Louis would block Ali's jab with his right glove held high, his chin tucked under his shoulder, and counter Ali in the middle of his face with his own jab just as Norton did. He would use the jab to maneuver Ali to the ropes.

Ali has never fought anybody who can cut the ring off like Louis did, when he gets Ali to the ropes due to Louis' 'jab and step' from the centre of the ring I mentioned above, he would pound Ali's body with precision timing and weaken him like **** (much worse than Foreman did) and due to Louis' range being so short and Ali's range being so long, meaning that Louis would be in nice and close to Ali, it means that Ali would not be able to counter with jabs or crosses because he would have nowhere to go against the ropes! So as Ali drops his right hand to deliver the uppercut, Louis would deliver the knockout drops with the left hook (and we know that the left hook and Ali aren't best friends - Cooper, Frazier anyone?).

[druth]

Tyson can't take a punch?

I stopped reading your ridiculous post from there.

He's only been stopped from an accumulation of punishment.

Let's not forget Joe Louis' suspect defense and chin.

Uggh, here we go again. I'm done with this debate, as it's been beaten to death (much like Tyson) over and over again. You have the people who look at things analytically and objectively who see that Tyson was nothing but punching power and hype. When it came down to it, he didn't beat a single "great" fighter of his era. If you say Spinx, you should never post again on any boxing related thread for the rest of your life.

Ali was the 2nd best fighter of all time, closely behind Louis. Louis was the best all-around heavyweight of any generation...the only thing that Ali lacked was the defense (relied on reflexes and chin) and the punching power. Most of his KO's were from accumulated punishment.

[EastCoastBoxing]

I'm torn on Tyson. Do I find his fights entertaining? Yes! Do I continue to watch his fights? Yes! Would I consider him one of the Top Heavyweight "Boxers" of all time? No! Would I consider him one of the most influential boxers of all time? Yes!

He was quick and powerful in his prime, but once he lost his intimidation factor people started to figure out that all you have to do is get him past round three and if he doesn't KO you he will get frustrated and begin to take shot after shot before resorting to some sort of illegal tactic. For that reason, he will never crack anyone's top 10 list of heavy's!