Comments Thread For: David Haye: I'm Expecting Wladimir To Fight, Not Vitali

[LeadUppercut]

How can he be undisputed champion if he doesn't have the WBA or WBC belt? he is the No.1 HW in the world Lewis was the undisputed champ cos he held all the belts Wlad doesn't hold all the belts there is a difference between lineal and undisputed champ.

Correct, but only the undisputed champ is definitive.

Wladimir Klitschko is the best heavyweight in the world, and the rightful World champion until further notice...... update coming hopefully around late June early July

[LeadUppercut]

Exactly, that was pretty much the point I was trying to make even though you probably expained much better. You can be the No.1 even though everybody could think someone else is better than the person at the top. The fact that so many people have different views on how to decide the lineal title pretty much proves my point that it is hard to define.

And that pretty much proves my point..... that it is crap

K, maybe the word " crap " is an overstatement.....

Lineage is a factor, a pointer, an indicator..... but not much more.

1.) The current " title " system has been compromised, undermined, and is highly fallible

2.) Lineage is only a factor

3.) Considering the framework that you have to work with, surely you guys can all figure out who is currently the best in most divisions?

[Dave Rado]

3.) Considering the framework that you have to work with, surely you guys can all figure out who is currently the best in most divisions?

No, that's a matter of opinion in most cases, unless the best regularly fight the best and settle it in the ring. Upsets happen all the time. Many people still think Vitali is better than Wlad, while many others think Wlad is better - but we'll never know because they'll never fight. But Wlad IS the World Heavyweight champion (and has by far the better resume of the two). Many think Pac would beat Mayweather, more think Mayweather would win, but we'll never know unless they fight. Martinez is clearly the World Middleweight champion, and most think he would beat Sturm, but we'll never know for certain unless they fight. Even though Bradley is the clear #1 at Jr Welterweight, the betting seems to be fairly even on whether he will beat Khan or not, so Bradley's #1 ranking will not become definitive unless he beats Khan - and if he does, he'll be the lineal champion. And so on, though most of the divisions.

And any sports title is only a temporary statement anyway, never definitive on its own. The current NFL champion was the best last season, but is not necessarily the best now. And the only title that matters in boxing is still the lineal title.

As I said before, to be definitively the best, you have to both be the lineal champion and defend regularly against the top contenders. Both are important. But the lineal champion IS the world champion, and it's up to the boxing public and the boxing media to put pressure on the lineal champions to fight the top contenders regularly, which sadly they don't do nearly enough, mainly because the water gets muddied by most of the media giving far too much credibility to the bullshit alphabet titles.

[Las Vegas,]

You're an Idiot. Wladimir is the UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD. He has cleaned out the divison and Haye will be knocked out next.

That's not saying much in this day and age.

[Dave Rado]

Did I miss something? Just a few days ago, I watched Zab Judah beat Mabuza in a fight for the IBF strap. Judah's ranked higher than McCloskey and he's a name, FWIW.

Whoops, I got that wrong, sorry. But nevertheless. while Judah is a better opponent and name than McCloskey, it is still the case that few people will claim that the Bradley-Khan winner has to fight Judah before they can be considered to be the undisputed champion. Most will consider the Bradley-Khan winner to be THE world champion, end of story; and to the extent that there is any demand for the winner to fight Judah, it will only be because he's a name, not because he holds the IBF title. Here's a better example. If the Super 6 winner fights Bute, not only will the winner be considered to be definitively THE world champion, but he will also be considered to be definitively the best. No one will say that they have to fight Stieglitz before they can be considered to be the undisputed champion. And if Mayweather fights Pacquiao, no one will consider that the winner must fight Vyacheslav Senchenko and Jan Zaveck before they can be considered to be THE Welterweight champion.


Regarding the rest of your post I don't want to sidetracked by the Mabuza vs. McCloskey discussion because that wasn't my point. My point was that there would be no demand for the Bradley-Khan winner to fight Mabuza if Mabuza was the IBF champion as I had thought he was. And certainly no one would claim that they had to fight Mabuza in order to be considered to be THE champion,