Would the klitchko's last in the 70s?

[cupocity303]

Bumping till I get an answer.

It's a ****** and a rather vague question.

You haven't set the criteria for what qualifies as "Good". So why would I waste time with this. I give you something "Good", only for you to tell me it's garbage.

Secondly, you have already shown yourself to be a biased, simple minded nitwit, so I won't waste much time with ya.

[Steak]

Who is qualified to say that they're great, and one of Wlad's opponent isn't?


And I'm not even talking about Ali's main wins (Liston, Frazier, Foreman), but his average title defense.

On paper, nobody is arguing that Ali's resume is better but Ability wise? Liston may have been a established champ, but ability wise he is overrated for the mere fact that he is a 60's fighter. You guys can easily hype that train while at the same time tell me that WLad beating Chris Byrd for the IBF belt is a **** win.

But I'm not buying it because I don't fall for that historically biased nonsense. Today's fighters have better training equipment, better Diet regimen, better methods to recover from a hard workout. Past fighters helped build the foundation like the past basketball players did, and they get huge credit for that. But nobody can tell me that past players are better than the Dwayne Wades, LeBron James's, Kobe Bryants of today's basketball, no matter how many Championship's the past players won.

you are aware that most fighters train in the traditional sense, correct? Punching bag, jumping rope, punch pads, sparring, running, etc...nothings changed other than maybe the usage of weights, and guys like Pacquiao, Mayweather, Tyson, and Roy Jones(some of the best athletes in the sport more recently) never lifted heavy weights in their prime.

also, you do know that the p4p #1 in the world right now grew up in **** conditions without good sources of nutrition, right?

[cklmaced]

Who is qualified to say that they're great, and one of Wlad's opponent isn't?


And I'm not even talking about Ali's main wins (Liston, Frazier, Foreman), but his average title defense.

On paper, nobody is arguing that Ali's resume is better but Ability wise? Liston may have been a established champ, but ability wise he is overrated for the mere fact that he is a 60's fighter. You guys can easily hype that train while at the same time tell me that WLad beating Chris Byrd for the IBF belt is a **** win.

But I'm not buying it because I don't fall for that historically biased nonsense. Today's fighters have better training equipment, better Diet regimen, better methods to recover from a hard workout. Past fighters helped build the foundation like the past basketball players did, and they get huge credit for that. But nobody can tell me that past players are better than the Dwayne Wades, LeBron James's, Kobe Bryants of today's basketball, no matter how many Championship's the past players won.

I think Michael Jordan would beg to differ about that.

[cklmaced]

It's a ****** and a rather vague question.

You haven't set the criteria for what qualifies as "Good". So why would I waste time with this. I give you something "Good", only for you to tell me it's garbage.

Secondly, you have already shown yourself to be a biased, simple minded nitwit, so I won't waste much time with ya.

I like how you didn't even try cos you know you can't come up with anyone.

[RubenSonny]

9 Title defenses & Counting, presented to you by Cupocity303:

Ahem 2 defences

[cupocity303]

Considering how the fight is being portrayed...I am sure Wlad will get a lot of credit...but I personally wont go completely crazy for it just because Haye hasnt beaten anyone of note in the division beforehand.....

So essentially, this is the whole problem.

The Klitscho's, Wlad in particular, just fight guys who are Top Ranked or Mandatory. Statistically speaking, they're beating Top guys based on Mathematics.

However in order for their resume to look better, they would have to duck five or six current fighters, allow them to build their resume and become semi-great fighters, before Wlad takes them on and beats them. Essentially this is what it would take, in order to make Wlad look good.

But this is hogwash, as nobody does this in any single division. Marvin Hagler didn't wait around for Middleweights to become great before facing them, he just took them on and made his Title Defenses. When there were great fighters to face, it was established guys coming up in weight (Duran, Hearns, Leonard). Hopkins had Tito, Delahoya etc,. etc,.

I guess Wlad's resume unlike in the Lower divisions, won't be judged by how many future HOF's he beats, but what his Title Defense numbers are, similar to Joe Louis. If he gets to twenty, then that will be part of his legacy, on top of how he beat these guys (Domination, Ko Percentage)

[cupocity303]

I like how you didn't even try cos you know you can't come up with anyone.

First you tell us what "Good" means. Then we'll talk.

[RubenSonny]

So essentially, this is the whole problem.

The Klitscho's, Wlad in particular, just fight guys who are Top Ranked or Mandatory. Statistically speaking, they're beating Top guys based on Mathematics.

However in order for their resume to look better, they would have to duck five or six current fighters, allow them to build their resume and become semi-great fighters, before Wlad takes them on and beats them. Essentially this is what it would take, in order to make Wlad look good.

But this is hogwash, as nobody does this in any single division. Marvin Hagler didn't wait around for Middleweights to become great before facing them, he just took them on and made his Title Defenses. When there were great fighters to face, it was established guys coming up in weight (Duran, Hearns, Leonard). Hopkins had Tito, Delahoya etc,. etc,.

I guess Wlad's resume unlike in the Lower divisions, won't be judged by how many future HOF's he beats, but what his Title Defense numbers are, similar to Joe Louis. If he gets to twenty, then that will be part of his legacy, on top of how he beat these guys (Domination, Ko Percentage)

18 more to go

[Steak]

So essentially, this is the whole problem.

The Klitscho's, Wlad in particular, just fight guys who are Top Ranked or Mandatory. Statistically speaking, they're beating Top guys based on Mathematics.

However in order for their resume to look better, they would have to duck five or six current fighters, allow them to build their resume and become semi-great fighters, before Wlad takes them on and beats them. Essentially this is what it would take, in order to make Wlad look good.

But this is hogwash, as nobody does this in any single division. Marvin Hagler didn't wait around for Middleweights to become great before facing them, he just took them on and made his Title Defenses. When there were great fighters to face, it was established guys coming up in weight (Duran, Hearns, Leonard). Hopkins had Tito, Delahoya etc,. etc,.

I guess Wlad's resume unlike in the Lower divisions, won't be judged by how many future HOF's he beats, but what his Title Defense numbers are, similar to Joe Louis. If he gets to twenty, then that will be part of his legacy, on top of how he beat these guys (Domination, Ko Percentage)

the difference being that Louis beat around 30 top fighters in his division.
so far Wladimir has beaten 10.(which is actually already a lot)

I dont put much stock in title defenses unless theyre against top guys...and that goes for any fighter of any era.

[cklmaced]

First you tell us what "Good" means. Then we'll talk.

Why are you so ****** you don't even know what "good" means? quit ducking the question and answer it.